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Connecting to trackers fails from different servers


Best Answer pj, 04 June 2013 - 12:00 AM

Hello everybody.

The problem is one and only one: some torrent trackers administrators blacklist entire IP ranges, even all the IP addresses of whole datacenters sometimes.

We will bypass such blocks, since there's no ethical, technical or moral reason NOT to do so. Quite the contrary, actually. Some of those blocks are already bypassed right now, as you might have noticed: we're experimenting with Diadem and we'll do that, maybe slowly but surely relentlessly, in every and each server, if necessary. However please consider the following:

1) Bittorrent trackers were originally born to enhance and facilitate free flow of information on a neutral and open Internet at the price of a dangerous centralization. There was no choice: mainline-DHT and PEX were in a development stage or even totally unimplemented on most clients, and Kademlia highly needed improvements.

2) Bittorrent trackers administrators who blacklist entire datacenters or wide IP ranges are, consciously or unconsciously, active enemies of a neutral and open Internet.

3) Bittorrent trackers usage is nowadays exploited by a wide range of privacy and freedom of information hostile, mentally deranged people that by simply interrogating a tracker obtain huge lists of IP addresses which are then exploited for filthy purposes.

4) Modern DHT, additionally empowered by PEX, has rendered Bittorrent trackers obsolete and mostly useless, as well as magnet links have rendered torrent files totally useless.

 

I can hear someone screaming "the stats! the staaats!" ... I can only ask what do the stats mean in comparison to a free and open Internet, in comparison to the task of lowering the barriers to information access? First let's defeat those who want walled-gardens or gasp for shutting down the open Internet, then we'll face the staaats problem (that already now has been partially solved).

Draw your own conclusions.


Kind regards
pj
Air co-founder
 

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#1 01000100

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 03:12 PM

Hello,

 

I am currently on my trial (thank you very much for that!), and so far I am very pleased with your service. I noticed a rather interesting behaviour though:

 

So far, I went with Pollux to see if I can set my system up as I want it to work with OpenVPN. Everything's fine when I connect to Pollux. However, when I connect to a different server, suddenly I cannot get a connection to various tracker hosts.

 

Or, to give a concrete example:

 

When connected to Pollux:

traceroute to tracker.istole.it (192.121.121.30), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  10.4.0.1 (10.4.0.1)  135.670 ms  137.101 ms  138.547 ms
(...)
11  192.121.121.243 (192.121.121.243)  267.251 ms  264.457 ms  265.830 ms
12  192.121.121.30 (192.121.121.30)  266.816 ms  268.718 ms  270.227 ms

... all is fine. When I disconnect from Pollux and connect to Diadem:

traceroute to tracker.istole.it (192.121.121.30), 30 hops max, 40 byte packets
 1  10.4.0.1 (10.4.0.1)  156.851 ms  158.632 ms  159.863 ms
(...)
 9  xe-0-0-9-435-dcp-demarc.pe1.sto4.se.portlane.net (80.67.1.70)  314.194 ms  311.056 ms  313.614 ms
10  192.121.121.243 (192.121.121.243)  314.721 ms  311.557 ms  312.146 ms
11  * * *
12  * * *
13  * * *
14  * * *

... the host would stop answering, even to pings. Do you have any explanation for this behaviour, especially, is it something in my setup? Is it some kind of internal routing not being ready directly after changing servers?



#2 Staff

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 04:43 PM

Hello!

 

Thank you for your report, we're investigating.

 

Kind regards



#3 01000100

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 05:36 PM

Awesome, thank you. FWIW, it happens pretty much with every server I switch to (after Pollux), I tried some in the Netherlands and in the US.



#4 NaDre

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 09:04 PM

I had similar issues with Corvi and Lyncis yesterday, and possibly one or two others. I was trying out a new OpenVPN confiuration scheme and trying various servers at the time. So I am afraid I am not sure which others I saw with problems.

It seems to affect the major public trackers - tracker.openbittorent.com, tracker.publicbt.com and tracker.istole.it.

I think I also had a problem with one private tracker on one server, but I may have just had a remaining glitch in my new OpenVPN set up.

I hope it is not the trackers themselves that are blocking these servers simply because they are getting a lot of connects from one IP address? And see it as abuse? If so, this may end up being the start of a big problem.

Otherwise, with server providers becoming more uncooperative with P2P, could the server providers be firewalling these connections? That way they wouldn't have to deal with copyright notices.

I hope very much that neither of these speculations is true.

#5 01000100

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Posted 03 June 2013 - 10:28 PM

It seems to affect the major public trackers - tracker.openbittorent.com, tracker.publicbt.com and tracker.istole.it.
(...)
I hope it is not the trackers themselves that are blocking these servers simply because they are getting a lot of connects from one IP address?

 

After some more experimenting, I can connect to these servers from some tunnel endpoints (Pollux, Cassiopeia), and from others it fails (Diadem, Corvi), but it's always for a handful of servers. Either both openbittorrent.com and istole.it work both, or both fail, and these servers are supposedly independent from each other, aren't they? (BTW, publicbt.com almost uniformly fails to respond to me.) Your assumption is certainly a possibility, but I somehow almost wish it was an AirVPN internal matter, because then it can be fixed.

 

I hope the investigation provides some insight, from what I see, the guys here are top-notch when it comes to routing matters.



#6 pj

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:00 AM   Best Answer

Hello everybody.

The problem is one and only one: some torrent trackers administrators blacklist entire IP ranges, even all the IP addresses of whole datacenters sometimes.

We will bypass such blocks, since there's no ethical, technical or moral reason NOT to do so. Quite the contrary, actually. Some of those blocks are already bypassed right now, as you might have noticed: we're experimenting with Diadem and we'll do that, maybe slowly but surely relentlessly, in every and each server, if necessary. However please consider the following:

1) Bittorrent trackers were originally born to enhance and facilitate free flow of information on a neutral and open Internet at the price of a dangerous centralization. There was no choice: mainline-DHT and PEX were in a development stage or even totally unimplemented on most clients, and Kademlia highly needed improvements.

2) Bittorrent trackers administrators who blacklist entire datacenters or wide IP ranges are, consciously or unconsciously, active enemies of a neutral and open Internet.

3) Bittorrent trackers usage is nowadays exploited by a wide range of privacy and freedom of information hostile, mentally deranged people that by simply interrogating a tracker obtain huge lists of IP addresses which are then exploited for filthy purposes.

4) Modern DHT, additionally empowered by PEX, has rendered Bittorrent trackers obsolete and mostly useless, as well as magnet links have rendered torrent files totally useless.

 

I can hear someone screaming "the stats! the staaats!" ... I can only ask what do the stats mean in comparison to a free and open Internet, in comparison to the task of lowering the barriers to information access? First let's defeat those who want walled-gardens or gasp for shutting down the open Internet, then we'll face the staaats problem (that already now has been partially solved).

Draw your own conclusions.


Kind regards
pj
Air co-founder
 



#7 01000100

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 12:14 AM

PJ,

 

first and foremost: You and your staff are doing a great job. At no point did I intend to imply any incompetence from your side, quite on the contrary.

 

I do not care much for trackers, as you said with DHT they have become pretty much obsolete, and I especially don't give a rat's behind about stats. It was just a behaviour mismatch within the AirVPN environment that I, with my limited knowledge, especially of low-level routing, could not explain to myself. On the off chance that it was some misbehaviour occuring within AirVPN I submitted my observations. Thank you for your explanations, the possibility that these trackers, while independent, use a common blocklist makes perfect sense.

 

Expect a full subscription from me.



#8 NaDre

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Posted 04 June 2013 - 02:52 AM

pj, on 03 Jun 2013 - 18:06, said:
...

4) Modern DHT, additionally empowered by PEX, has rendered Bittorrent trackers obsolete and mostly useless, as well as magnet links have rendered torrent files totally useless.

...

Magnet links do not contain the list of files though. This information has to be obtained from a peer. So if a torrent dies out, and I have the files but have removed the torrent from my client, I cannot start seeding it and bring it back to life. Although if it has died out, I suppose you could just create a new torrent with the same contents.

The idea of P2P without centralized trackers is very appealing. I believe that the uTorrent authors have made comments indicating that they see private trackers as very undesirable. And I don't like the idea either. But there is a much greater range of content available on private trackers (particularly older TV, movies and music) than is available via public torrents/DHT. And when you seed using public torrents you get inundated, and few people ever seed back what you seed to them. So I "hold my nose" and sign up. And hope that the private tracker I have invested so much effort into does not disappear, along with its torrents. My hope is that if an industry of competent VPN providers (like AirVPN) can develop (so far I only see one such VPN provider, unfortunately), and folks can learn to use them, people will have no reason to fear seeding back. Of course they still have to overcome greed and laziness.

Thank you very much for founding AirVPN.

#9 Staff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 01:44 PM

Magnet links do not contain the list of files though. This information has to be obtained from a peer. So if a torrent dies out, and I have the files but have removed the torrent from my client, I cannot start seeding it and bring it back to life. Although if it has died out, I suppose you could just create a new torrent with the same contents.

 

Hi,

 

yes, you can! All you need is the hash. If you have destroyed the magnet link as well, just re-create it with the hash.

 

Kind regards



#10 NaDre

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 08:27 PM

Magnet links do not contain the list of files though. This information has to be obtained from a peer. So if a torrent dies out, and I have the files but have removed the torrent from my client, I cannot start seeding it and bring it back to life. Although if it has died out, I suppose you could just create a new torrent with the same contents.

 

Hi,

 

yes, you can! All you need is the hash. If you have destroyed the magnet link as well, just re-create it with the hash.

 

Kind regards

 

By re-create it do you mean be sure that I have exactly all of the same files in place and use the same piece size so that the torrent I create from scratch has the same hash? I believe I read somewhere that the hash will come out the same under these circumsutances. But I have never tried it myself.

 

===

 

By the way, I fear the issue with the three major open public trackers not connecting may be spreading. It seems to affect Hercilis now.

 

Oh well. As staff have pointed out, public torrents should be using DHT anyway, and so this should not matter much.



#11 Staff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 09:18 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards



#12 NaDre

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:22 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards

 

Cannnot connect thru Herculis to:

 

tracker.istole.it
tracker.openbittorrent.com
tracker.publicbt.com



#13 Staff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 10:59 PM

Hello,

 

block circumvention should now work on all US servers and all NL servers. We have scheduled to check Herculis.

 

Kind regards



#14 Staff

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Posted 19 June 2013 - 11:21 PM

 

Magnet links do not contain the list of files though. This information has to be obtained from a peer. So if a torrent dies out, and I have the files but have removed the torrent from my client, I cannot start seeding it and bring it back to life. Although if it has died out, I suppose you could just create a new torrent with the same contents.

 

Hi,

 

yes, you can! All you need is the hash. If you have destroyed the magnet link as well, just re-create it with the hash.

 

Kind regards

 

By re-create it do you mean be sure that I have exactly all of the same files in place and use the same piece size so that the torrent I create from scratch has the same hash? I believe I read somewhere that the hash will come out the same under these circumsutances. But I have never tried it myself.

 

Hello!

 

Correct. If you have modified the files you can't get the same hash (hash collisions are very unlikely - otherwise the p2p infrastructure might be easily poisoned to the point to collapse), and the files can't be seeded again as before, trackers or not (trackers are irrelevant even in this case). They will be seeded according to the new hash, therefore with a new magnet link (which can specify or not trackers) or a new torrent file.

 

Kind regards



#15 NaDre

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Posted 02 July 2013 - 01:56 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards

 

This private tracker is being blocked from Lyncis, and I believe I also encountered this on Castor:

 

tracker.torrenting.com



#16 NaDre

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 03:26 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards

 

I am afraid the three major open public trackers are being blocked again from Lyncis:

 

tracker.istole.it
tracker.openbittorrent.com
tracker.publicbt.com
 

I have not tried with other servers.

 

Someone seems very determined.

 

I can probably get by with DHT and peer exchange if it comes to it.



#17 Staff

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Posted 03 July 2013 - 07:23 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards

 

I am afraid the three major open public trackers are being blocked again from Lyncis:

 

tracker.istole.it
tracker.openbittorrent.com
tracker.publicbt.com
 

I have not tried with other servers.

 

Someone seems very determined.

 

I can probably get by with DHT and peer exchange if it comes to it.

 

Hello,

 

no, it's a problem on our side, re-routing for those trackers failed. We have detected the problem and it will be fixed in a very short time.

 

Kind regards



#18 NaDre

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Posted 09 July 2013 - 08:07 PM

Hello,

 

please continue to report, if you wish, blocked trackers (exact url) on specific servers.

 

Kind regards

 

This tracker is being blocked from Corvi:

 

tracker.torrenting.com



#19 NaDre

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Posted 26 July 2013 - 01:28 PM

I have been unable to reach (even ping) these public trackers via Corvi for about half a day now:

 

tracker.istole.it

tracker.publicbt.com

tracker.openbittorrent.com

 

I can ping them OK from my normal IP.



#20 OxMegox

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Posted 29 July 2013 - 07:02 PM

Connections to the following trackers are timing out for me with AirVPN:

 

udp://open.demonii.com:1337

udp://tracker.cc.de:80

udp://tracker.istole.it:80

udp://tracker.openbittorrent.com:80

udp://tracker.publicbt.com:80

 

They all work with a normal internet connection.







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