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Hi, a couple of things I hope someone can help advise me about...

1. Tor - I assume if I wanted to use Tor and be totally anonymous, using it via AirVPN defeats the purpose as Air will have all my browsing data to de-anonymize me with, IF they wanted (I trust Air VPN so I am not worried about this, it's a theoretical curiosity question!)

2. I want to learn how to use Tor network/browser as I have never used it before. Do I just install Tor browser while using AirVPN? (I don't want my ISP to see my Tor usage as I think that gets you flagged, don't want a discussion on that as I remain convinced of it despite people's different views on it!). Or do I do something in Eddie settings to push all connections from whole computer through Tor, if that's possible?

Thanks, interesting stuff this

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13 minutes ago, Terry Stanford said:

Hi, a couple of things I hope someone can help advise me about...

1. Tor - I assume if I wanted to use Tor and be totally anonymous, using it via AirVPN defeats the purpose as Air will have all my browsing data to de-anonymize me with, IF they wanted (I trust Air VPN so I am not worried about this, it's a theoretical curiosity question!)

2. I want to learn how to use Tor network/browser as I have never used it before. Do I just install Tor browser while using AirVPN? (I don't want my ISP to see my Tor usage as I think that gets you flagged, don't want a discussion on that as I remain convinced of it despite people's different views on it!). Or do I do something in Eddie settings to push all connections from whole computer through Tor, if that's possible?

Thanks, interesting stuff this


https://airvpn.org/tor/

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52 minutes ago, Terry Stanford said:

1. Tor - I assume if I wanted to use Tor and be totally anonymous, using it via AirVPN defeats the purpose as Air will have all my browsing data to de-anonymize me with, IF they wanted (I trust Air VPN so I am not worried about this, it's a theoretical curiosity question!)


If you are connecting to Tor via AirVPN, this is not so.  AirVPN would only be able to discern that you are using Tor, as it naturally follows that they would be able to see which guard node or bridge you are connecting to.  They cannot see what is you are doing via Tor and therefore would have no record at all of your browsing history in Tor Browser etc etc.
 
52 minutes ago, Terry Stanford said:

2. I want to learn how to use Tor network/browser as I have never used it before. Do I just install Tor browser while using AirVPN? (I don't want my ISP to see my Tor usage as I think that gets you flagged, don't want a discussion on that as I remain convinced of it despite people's different views on it!). Or do I do something in Eddie settings to push all connections from whole computer through Tor, if that's possible?


There are several ways to use Tor with VPNs (for different use cases), but installing Tor Browser and running it after you've connected to AirVPN is the easiest way to get started (and sounds like it is exactly what you want).  No changes to your configuration are needed.
(The Eddie client can also facilitate connections to AirVPN via Tor, but if you are trying to obscure your Tor use from your ISP this is definitely not what you want.)
Depending on what country you live in, if you've been searching for privacy related technologies from your home connection sans VPN then your interest has probably already been "flagged".  (Consider: XKEYSCORE)  But in any case it is true that heavy Tor usage might raise eyebrows even in locales where Tor use is not regulated.  I think your caution is reasonable.

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Thanks. I have read that through twice. I am not too technical so it's not too easy for me. It sounds like I can EITHER hide my use of Tor from ISP.... OR... Hide my use of Tor from target website (i.e. Google).

I would quite like both, but can't have cake and eat it!!

Just thinking... If I ran something like Tails OS with AirVPN installed, which one would grab and encrypt my traffic first?

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33 minutes ago, hawkflights said:

"If you are connecting to Tor via AirVPN, this is not so.  AirVPN would only be able to discern that you are using Tor, as it naturally follows that they would be able to see which guard node or bridge you are connecting to.  They cannot see what is you are doing via Tor and therefore would have no record at all of your browsing history in Tor Browser etc etc." Oh, I thought AIRVPN would have everything, target site I am going to, data etc, as they have done the encryption first. very confusing for me this!
 
"Depending on what country you live in, if you've been searching for privacy related technologies from your home connection sans VPN then your interest has probably already been "flagged".  (Consider: XKEYSCORE)  But in any case it is true that heavy Tor usage might raise eyebrows even in locales where Tor use is not regulated.  I think your caution is reasonable." - Thanks. I have not connected to the web without a VPN for many years. (and I never will)

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I would ideally like to prevent my ISP knowing I am using Tor, AND the target site. Is that even possible?
I have heard about Meek Azure, but I honestly wonder (paranoia maybe) if that might somehow be visible to ISP and flagged even more because I am trying to hide the fact I am connecting to Tor. Or is that silly paranoia? Its easy to get paranoid with very little knowledge

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Posted ... (edited)

I am running Eddie on Linux Mint. I have it set to start on bootup, but it doesn't. Is this a known bug?
I have rebooted several times and Eddie never runs until I start it manually.

Edited ... by harryhoudini

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17 hours ago, Terry Stanford said:

I would ideally like to prevent my ISP knowing I am using Tor, AND the target site. Is that even possible?


In the strictest sense, it is possible, but this is not easy to configure correctly nor would this be normally desirable.  Tor exit nodes are discernible as such to any site operator that cares to identify where their traffic is really coming from.  Normally, this isn't any cause for concern.
If you encounter sites that are especially hostile to Tor (e.g., payment processors and most banks, government sites in certain countries, some uni and corporate sites in "free" ones), then consider whether connecting directly to them from your VPN might be sufficient — most such sites know you by your account details or credentials anyway, negating most of the advantages of using Tor before you begin.
If Tor use is potentially dangerous in your country or might have other implications on your life (e.g., jeopardise your social credit score), then I would advise against using Tor at all.
 
17 hours ago, Terry Stanford said:

Just thinking... If I ran something like Tails OS with AirVPN installed, which one would grab and encrypt my traffic first?


Tails is purpose built to use Tor for all connections.  It does not support VPN usage presently.
 
17 hours ago, Terry Stanford said:

I have heard about Meek Azure, but I honestly wonder (paranoia maybe) if that might somehow be visible to ISP and flagged even more because I am trying to hide the fact I am connecting to Tor.


Generally speaking, use obfs4 bridges instead of meek-azure as obfs4 offers more advantages in obscuring Tor traffic from your provider.
It is highly doubtful there are "penalty points" for using a bridge to try to obscure your traffic — it is a quite standard component of the Tor network.  You either get flagged as a Tor user or no one really notices.

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Thanks Hawk.

"Generally speaking, use obfs4 bridges instead of meek-azure as obfs4 offers more advantages in obscuring Tor traffic from your provider." - I actually believed the exact opposite. I looked at obfs4 and was advised it's often known as a tor entry bridge, whereas Meek Azure looks just like any device connecting to cloud servers for random phone updates (android devices for instance) and thus is FAR better for hiding Tor usage from ISPs. But not a big deal anyway.

I have a real problem with Eddie on Mac. Not sure if someone can advise if adjusting some of the many settings (most of which I don't understand, my fault not Air's :D ) will help.

Basically every time I leave my desk, as I did just now for an hour, I come back and the iMac is in sleep, black screen. I hit a key to wake, enter admin pass to unlock, and it opens, but Eddie has disconnected. It then tries to reconnect but fails continually (usually stalling on flushing ipv4). It gets stuck in that loop with ding after ding as it tries, closes, tries, closes, etc. It does it regularly. The only fix I have is to unplug ethernet, quit eddie app, restart eddie app and plug cable back in at same time, then it connects first time every time. Quitting it obviously clears whatever the problem is, then it connects and stays connected and stable for many hours until i leave desk again. I tend to sit here 16 hours a day 7 days a week, so it's not often that i leave, but annoying when I do! Maybe there's a setting to prevent it disconnecting while I am away (although I quite like that feature now, machine not connected when i am not here, nice! Even though I didnt knowingly choose it!)

Any tips? thanks

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Posted ... (edited)
On 12/25/2019 at 12:58 AM, Terry Stanford said:

I actually believed the exact opposite. I looked at obfs4 and was advised it's often known as a tor entry bridge, whereas Meek Azure looks just like any device connecting to cloud servers for random phone updates (android devices for instance) and thus is FAR better for hiding Tor usage from ISPs. But not a big deal anyway.


As you touched on, meek's primary benefit is the use of domain fronting, which aims to make it difficult to block a connections to a Tor bridge without also blocking services that are being used to "front" the connection itself (in this case, those of Microsoft's Azure).  Amusingly, Signal's blog discusses domain fronting more concisely than Tor's documentation: https://www.signal.org/blog/looking-back-on-the-front/
But obfs4's design goes further than meek's in disguising traffic, with stronger resistance to endpoint probing to avoid revealing the protocols in use — the Tor Project itself generally recommends obfs4 for this reason.  The reason many obfs4 bridges are known is simply because of their inclusion in a public list of Tor bridges.
Please consider these documents from the "horse's mouth":
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/PluggableTransports/MeekEvaluation
https://trac.torproject.org/projects/tor/wiki/doc/PluggableTransports/Obfs4Evaluation
(See 2.1 How difficult or expensive will it be to block the design? and 2.2 What impact on anonymity does the design have, if any? in both documents, as I believe these will address your concerns more precisely.)

In any case, I suspect running Tor over your AirVPN connection will prove better in the long term at hiding the fact that you use Tor from your internet provider than using pluggable transports alone.

N.B.. Regarding your problems running Eddie on Mac, it's possible that anyone in a position to help you will overlook a thread mostly about Tor.  I would begin a new thread in the Eddie or Troubleshooting section of this forum. Edited ... by hawkflights
clarification and addressing other points.

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