ANSWERED Will Eddie work in PC-BSD (FreeBSD)?

[mr.Rhee 16]

I'm planning to leave Linux & use PC-BSD (no systemd plus other security benefits).

 

Before I make the commitment to move to BSD, I need to know whether the the Linux version of Eddie will run (as most Linux software will run on BSD)?

 

Thanks.

[zhang888 1066]

As long as you can install Mono runtimes, Eddie will support that platform.

This is the reason why it runs on all Linux distros without issues.

 

You should be able to run it without issues, native FreeBSD has Mono in ports.

So you will have to install it either via ports or via pkgng.

[mr.Rhee 16]

Thanks zhang.

 

I'll continue my investigations; compatible file-systems looks like the next major problem to plan my way through...

 

If I end up making the switch to BSD, I'll post the results in this thread for others that may be interested in going that way in the future.

[mr.Rhee 16]

I've another query re. Eddie running on PC-BSD (FreeBSD):

 

iptables is no longer the firewall, instead we have 3 firewalls to choose from in FreeBSD.

 

How do I organise Eddie to function with this difference?

 

Do I need to manually set up a firewall (to suit network lock) & Eddie will cope with that & run properly?

[rickjames 106]

I've never run the client on fbsd but I've used air on it a good bit. I'm unsure if the clients network lock feature will work with the freebsd/pc-bsd pf firewall, or if it will do anything at all. So you'll probably need to make pf rules for it.


Might also wanna check out straight FreeBSD and HardenedBSD. Both FreeBSD and HardenedBSD are bare bones, aka you'll need to install everything. But both are less bloated than pc-bsd. Depends on what you need really.

 

Edit:

Saw you responded while I was replying.

Yea I have no clue if the clients network lock will do anything. I'm guessing not.

The firewall I would use is the PF firewall - its amazing. I just wish it had the more recent version of it that's available on OpenBSD.

 

 

Slightly OT:

Its possible to remove systemd from debian 8 and use a desktop environment. Its not possible to completely gutt it but you can fully uninstall systemd itself, purge it, nPin it and replace it with sysvinit.

 

-GL

[mr.Rhee 16]

Thanks rickjames for that informative info'.

 

I've been using Manjaro with the OpenRC option. You still have systemd bits & pieces floating around, & to be honest I'm a bit over working on my computer & having to fix things when upstream decides to change something.

 

Over the last ~9 years I've used PC-BSD for stints ranging up to a few months at a time. I like BSD, but I don't really know it very well at all (forgotten what I did know - last usage ended late 2011). So I'll look into what BSD's that I think I might be capable of running these days (PC-BSD has to be the easiest of them - I ripped stuff out of it last time & threw Openbox & Worker on it, etc) & then do the long hours of learning how to get this new firewall to be tight.

 

My usage needs are minimal: Openbox, Worker, Browser (Pale Moon hopefully), VLC & qBittorrent are my essentials (with AirVPN of course), with that lot, that machine is done.

 

Hopefully I can find a LTS BSD install (I think I may after all these years be over rolling release package management).

[zhang888 1066]

Well, with such minimum demands it seems you can do well with just headless OpenVPN client.

Eddie is aimed at novice users mostly and there is a reasonable limit of platforms Staff can support.

So the only way to make OpenVPN work on your toaster (old NetBSD joke) is by using just the cli version.

[mr.Rhee 16]

It looks like I'm going to have to use a FreeBSD variant of BSD as it will be possible (or at least much easier) for me to use NTFS read/write. As NTFS looks like the filesystem that I'm going to have use to put my data on that currently resides on ext4 & btrfs partitions.

[eyes878 43]

In regards to the systemd issue:

 

https://devuan.org/

[rickjames 106]

In regards to the systemd issue:

 

https://devuan.org/

 

This ^.

They also offer apt packages that can be used in debian jessie that allow you to remove systemd. I've had a debian 8 rig running without systemd for a while now mostly thanks to those guys/gals. It updates normally/correctly and it runs mate desktop flawlessly no issues really at all.

 

Something worth mentioning is that some of the graphic driver support in FreeBSD is a bit lacking. According to https://wiki.freebsd.org/Graphics there's still no support for intel haswell onboard graphics. But by the sounds of it you've run pc-bsd a lot and you're probably aware of that.

 

If you did need haswell support, OpenBSD has it. And imo anyway its substantially more secure due to its memory protections and code auditing. Either OpenBSD or HardenedBSD->"once fully released" would be my choice depending on the systems requirements anyway. Grsec is another option for memory protection ect. in linux, but it can be a lot of work, work I find difficult to do when OBSD and HBSD for the most part have it built into the os.

 

As zhang said considering your past experience running openvpn via command line would be the quickest route. And it works very very well with air. Then you'll only need to make some pf firewall rules.

 

It makes me wonder how many people have gone to some version of BSD due to this systemd issue.

[mr.Rhee 16]

@eyes878: I've been using Manjaro with openrc for a while & it is pretty good. There are still some Poettering prints in some of the code (avahi & a few other bits), these will eventually be removed. The problem is that there are so very few people working on the Manjaro openrc project (mainly aarto  - to the best of my knowledge) so there is just not the manpower that is required to recompile & maintain those packages (none of them are init).

 

@rickjames: See above ^ for my response to the Devuan idea.

 

Re. the BSD GPU driver situation - yes, I'm aware of that. Allowing me to view movies is really the most I'll ask of the BSD GPU drivers. When I want to play a game I use Win7 & Steam. I do a little web surfing on Win7, not much of it & very little of it outside of AirVPN.

 

Re. the flavour of BSD - I did a lot of reading yesterday, mostly on OpenBSD. It sounds great, but it won't allow write access to NTFS. I need to use NTFS (files larger than 4GB are OK) for my data as if for whatever reason I loose my BSD system, I will still be able to access my data from Win7 or Linux if need be. This is of critical importance.

 

PC-BSD has NTFS read/write access out of the box. For me, someone who is over fixing computers & learning lots of new things (I've become too old & tired & increasingly dumber with time, to want to do that stuff for fun anymore), I want the easy (boring) life, which is why I much prefer Eddie than stuffing around with OpenVPN. If I can't have Eddie with BSD then I'll just ask questions here & wherever else I need to, until I get myself sorted out. Then I'll document what I did one way or another so I don't have to ask all of those questions ever again.

 

I guess the above is a long winded way of saying that I really like skinny no frills build it yourself net-installs, (I love Arch. You can in many ways treat Manjaro as Arch in the way you build your system if you want - its just heeps easier/quicker than using the Beginners' Guide in the ArchWiki, & much easier to maintain - I've never installed any of the Manjaro GUI tools, though MHWD in the terminal is awesome). I'm just not as capable as I once was, bad & deteriorating memory & a slow cpu. A man's got to know his limitations, & all that.

 

I should orgainise myself to do a trial install of PC-BSD & see what I think these days.

[rickjames 106]

I should orgainise myself to do a trial install of PC-BSD & see what I think these days.

 

ayy yea, see how it goes with mono ect.

[mr.Rhee 16]

I looked at PC-BSD & it didn't suit my tastes (love zfs though).

 

So I'm in the process of installing Gentoo (what a task that is!). If I survive the install (I've been using roll your own for pushing 8 years with Arch/Manjaro) I expect that the fact that Gentoo is (unless you choose otherwise) systemd free, plus it is extremely highly configurable by its design, Gentoo could very well be just the ticket that I'm after.

 

The Gentoo server tragically went down some years ago & they lost their wiki. Which was a huge loss not only to Gentoo but to the entire Linux community, as their wiki was 2nd to none. The Arch wiki is probably top dog these days, but it is a mere shadow of what the Gentoo wiki was.

 

Gentoo have done a good job of recovering, though their pages aren't all perfect. There is documentation that is incorrect & some that is not detailed enough for a first time installer. Which has caused me to have to go looking elsewhere to get the information that I need. Or just using trial & error until I hit on the correct method. So far so good, but it ain't over yet... lol

 

If I end up going that way, I'll surely make clonezilla images of my system often! so I don't have to go through this laborious installation process again if my HDD fails.

[rickjames 106]

Are you planning on running hardened Gentoo?

They've got several hardened flavors there. Tempted to grab one myself and take a peek.

[mr.Rhee 16]

Not at this stage, I'm slowly (as in very relaxed about it) battling through the installation process (I chose the big one size fits all kernel that will make everything work to make my job easier, as I've been here before many years ago & know that I don't want to do anything to make it harder!). If/when I get an installation the way I like it, & I decide that I do want to continue with Gentoo, then I'll spend the time & organise a later customised to my system kernel & look at the hardening side of things.

 

At the moment I've installed X & the nVidia proprietary driver, but I can't as yet startx. Once I get past this major problem (any others that I've had haven't really been much, I could work them out for myself), I "should" be able to organise a system the way that I like them to be & spend the time getting familiar with the Gentoo way. I think that the hardest part about Gentoo, is the installation, it is like a right of passage... (Six hours to have a booted system with a prompt - not X, just a prompt to continue with.)

 

I've applied for a forum account, waiting for them to send me an email, then I'll get some help on this problem that's blocking my progress. I actually have an account there, but I don't know its details, plus if they need an email address in the verification, I don't have it any more. So...

[rickjames 106]

Whats the error when running startx?

[mr.Rhee 16]

Whats the error when running startx?

 

After I log in as root, I issue the startx command X , then X does its start up thing, does not succeed & leaves me with this following message:

 

 

/etc/X11/xinit/xinitrc: line 104: xterm: command not found
line 106: exec: xterm: not found
line 102: twm: command not found
line 103: xclock: command not found
line 105: xterm: command not found
xinit: connection to Xserver lost

[mr.Rhee 16]

I found the solution searching the Gentoo forum:

 

 

emerge -1 twm xclock xterm

 

I had some how missed the section that said to install those files. What they do, is give X something to do when you call it. When X hasn't got anything to do, it starts up, has look for jobs, no jobs, OK, I'll shut down & leave the error messages that I left in my last post.

 

I'll carry on & see what other trouble I can get myself into in this install.

 

As usual, the solution took a matter of less than a minute to implement...

[rickjames 106]

Sounds like its something to hold open the X session.

 

Good luck m8.

[mr.Rhee 16]

A day or so prior to my finding the solution to the problem that prevented X from staying open, I had installed Openbox (hadn't created ~/.xinitrc & put in the line that started Openbox though) & other files that I would be able to use once I could eventually start X. So after installing the three files & being able to startx, (& making .xinintrc - calling Openbox), when I typed startx , there was Openbox (not a very useful Ob, but there it was).

 

I've configured some more & installed more packages. Still have quite a way to go before I have a stable system that is just the way I want it to be. I've been in the garden for some days, & haven't got back to continuing the Gentoo install.

 

I noticed that Pulseaudio was installed by default, even though I didn't go down the systemd path. I found that udev was being used in Gentoo. So I installed eudev which removed udev & hopefully those bits of systemd that were installed with it (I don't know about all of the Poettering prints though, I'll get to that in the future).

 

Someone on the Manjaro forum PM'd with this link, which I find very interesting. Beyond the security benefits, it looks to be the quickest/easiest way that I've ever seen to install Gentoo. It IS Gentoo, & treat it as such, it just has its own special config' which removes many choices when you are installing, which has to be the prime reason that it installs so much quicker/easier.

 

Anyway, I think I'm about to have look at Lilblue & see what its like. It may persuade me to give up Openbox (if I have to) & run with Xfce4. At least Xfce4 is modular & I can get rid of lots of it, & it has a nice panel (much more than I need though). We'll see.

[mr.Rhee 16]

I've installed the hardened Gentoo on a drive, though I get a kernel panic when I try to boot it.

 

I've looked at the contents of the installation which you can modify to a point before breaking the type of build that it is intended to be - which is OK, you can do that & you can bring it back to the type of build it was (if you don't stray too far away initially). If I used it, I'd want to modify it dramatically, as it has a lot of stuff that I have no need for (for starters).

 

These pages may be of interest to those people who are looking at security builds &/or hearing about the relatively new Gentoo Reference Systems project:

 

https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:RelEng_GRS

 

http://releases.freeharbor.net/

[rickjames 106]

The kernel panic could be a grsec setting.

 

Thanks for the links. That wiki article/guide is the quickest method I've seen.

[mr.Rhee 16]

I agree with your "quickest method I've seen" rick.

 

Apart from what is happening now with the GRS project, it holds out the tantalising possibility of a variety of quick & easy to install Gentoo systems in the future.

 

THAT, I think, is the most profound knowledge that I've gathered from my changing lanes experience thus far. I do so hope that, THAT is what will come, as so many more people will use Gentoo if they could just install it it in a reasonable amount of time (like a few hours instead of a few days - if nothing goes wrong of course...).

[mr.Rhee 16]

Well, I've spent some time with Gentoo & found that it requires too much effort for me. I would have to learn a great deal more than I know about Linux & about compilation. As if I want to get rid of systemd from my system, I would have a major job on my hands recompiling & replacing packages. Too much for me I'm afraid.

 

I had a bit of a look at Tiny Core. No systemd init, very different than any other Linux system I've ever installed. (Puppy has some similarities.) Great, fast, & small system, but it is too different for my desired kind of desktop usage. Again, it requires a lot of learning (like Gentoo) to be able to really know your way around it. Difficult for a beginner to bring new software in that isn't already in the fairly small repo.

 

I've found that BSD isn't for me personally these days. OpenBSD (brilliant security) won't give me NTFS read/write (which is essential for me), & PC-BSD apart from anything else, wouldn't run software that I rely on & was more limited (with my amount of BSD knowledge at least) in how it could be set up.

 

So I'm back on Manjaro running OpenRC. I've gone full circle & found that I was already where I was trying to go! & I can use Eddie.

 

I suppose I should mark this topic solved.

 

Thanks to all who contributed to this topic, there are some very informative posts back there.