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Who owns Air VPN's servers?


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#1 Waterwater10

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 03:35 PM

From what I can tell, they are owned by 3rd parties. This is somewhat disappointing as, although they may have physical access, this does not mean it is secure. So, can someone confirm if they are owned by AirVPN or a 3rd part. If the latter, I will no longer use AirVPN.



#2 go558a83nk

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 08:49 PM

I'd love to see your evidence that they are owned by 3rd parties.



#3 greenclaydog

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 09:28 PM

From what I can tell, they are owned by 3rd parties. This is somewhat disappointing as, although they may have physical access, this does not mean it is secure. So, can someone confirm if they are owned by AirVPN or a 3rd part. If the latter, I will no longer use AirVPN.

 

Every VPN providers servers are 3rd party. Anyone else who tells you otherwise likely has not done their research

 

AirVPN servers are run in 3rd party datacentres, but they have complete control over them as they use dedicated baremetal servers rather than a cheap virtual instance (VPS)

 

For example, Alcor is in https://www.ukrnames.com/  datacentre. 

 

Several new servers are owned by M247, a british company in Manchester including all Swiss servers except virginis and kitalpha (and arneb if its still around) 

 

Your deluding yourself if you think a tiny VPN provider in Italy can spare the resources to own and man datacentres all over the world off an individual subcription fee of about $8.00 USD and thats per month, its cheaper if you do yearly or quarterly.

 

If you don't trust AirVPN for that then your pretty well fucked for alternatives. You could run a computer out of your house, or rent your own dedicated servers, but they have your name all over them which defeats the point to begin with. 



#4 greenclaydog

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 10:09 PM

I'd love to see your evidence that they are owned by 3rd parties.

 

You can see it for yourself. Just go to www.ipleak.net under organization and it will tell you who runs the datacentre. 

 

Here is Pavonis for an example

 

Capture.jpg



#5 zhang888

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Posted 05 December 2016 - 11:53 PM

Let's make a few things clear.

First, if the server is dedicated and is leased under a contract as a server, it means the leasing entity has full control over the hardware,

starting from the BIOS and ending with the drivers, which is not something many VPN providers are using today.

What it actually means is, in case the owner of the server is both security and privacy aware, the server will have an IPMI/iLO/iDRAC

card in which case the owner will install the server OS, with full disk encryption, on their own. Which is the case with Air servers.

The datacenter staff has very little control over such setups, except the physical power switch, even if the server is powered off, the

dm-crypt volumes ensure that the disks are encrypted, and since OpenVPN doesn't log anything, the RAM also stays clean.

Out of dozens of VPN providers I reviewed in the competitive analysis forum area, more than 90% used shared VPS servers.

 

Second, there is completely no correlation between owning the datacenter and being a privacy/freedom of speech focused provider.

Take a look at GoldenFrog, they are having their own hardware (since they are a CDN under another brand) but that doesn't mean they

don't log, or being more committed to your privacy anywhere more than others. The studies show the opposite, as long as your infrastructure

is decentralized among many ISPs, the less you are prone to various attacks and court orders. It's much easier to withdraw a rented server,

than it is to cease entire datacenter operations. And since there is no binding contract except the monthly payment, this happens to every

VPN provider when the datacenter decides to act in an unjustified way. This allows the VPN provider to have the freedom to secure yours.

 

So if anyone sees not owning the datacenter as a disadvantage, I would like to comment on facts which lead to this assumption.

Since this is totally not the case, as I mentioned, it is quite the opposite. The more legal chains there are, the better is for you.


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#6 Waterwater10

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 02:29 AM

From what I can tell, they are owned by 3rd parties. This is somewhat disappointing as, although they may have physical access, this does not mean it is secure. So, can someone confirm if they are owned by AirVPN or a 3rd part. If the latter, I will no longer use AirVPN.

 

Every VPN providers servers are 3rd party. Anyone else who tells you otherwise likely has not done their research

 

AirVPN servers are run in 3rd party datacentres, but they have complete control over them as they use dedicated baremetal servers rather than a cheap virtual instance (VPS)

 

For example, Alcor is in https://www.ukrnames.com/  datacentre. 

 

Several new servers are owned by M247, a british company in Manchester including all Swiss servers except virginis and kitalpha (and arneb if its still around) 

 

Your deluding yourself if you think a tiny VPN provider in Italy can spare the resources to own and man datacentres all over the world off an individual subcription fee of about $8.00 USD and thats per month, its cheaper if you do yearly or quarterly.

 

If you don't trust AirVPN for that then your pretty well fucked for alternatives. You could run a computer out of your house, or rent your own dedicated servers, but they have your name all over them which defeats the point to begin with. 

 

"If you don't trust AirVPN for that then your pretty well fucked for alternatives."

 

That's quite the opposite. I don't trust the companies that own the servers. Like, I want AirVPN to own it, because I trust them. 



#7 greenclaydog

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Posted 06 December 2016 - 01:58 PM

 

From what I can tell, they are owned by 3rd parties. This is somewhat disappointing as, although they may have physical access, this does not mean it is secure. So, can someone confirm if they are owned by AirVPN or a 3rd part. If the latter, I will no longer use AirVPN.

 

Every VPN providers servers are 3rd party. Anyone else who tells you otherwise likely has not done their research

 

AirVPN servers are run in 3rd party datacentres, but they have complete control over them as they use dedicated baremetal servers rather than a cheap virtual instance (VPS)

 

For example, Alcor is in https://www.ukrnames.com/  datacentre. 

 

Several new servers are owned by M247, a british company in Manchester including all Swiss servers except virginis and kitalpha (and arneb if its still around) 

 

Your deluding yourself if you think a tiny VPN provider in Italy can spare the resources to own and man datacentres all over the world off an individual subcription fee of about $8.00 USD and thats per month, its cheaper if you do yearly or quarterly.

 

If you don't trust AirVPN for that then your pretty well fucked for alternatives. You could run a computer out of your house, or rent your own dedicated servers, but they have your name all over them which defeats the point to begin with. 

 

"If you don't trust AirVPN for that then your pretty well fucked for alternatives."

 

That's quite the opposite. I don't trust the companies that own the servers. Like, I want AirVPN to own it, because I trust them. 

 

 

As Zhang already mentioned, 3rd party servers are objectively better for your privacy and security as the extra legal chain would further complicate the legal process. 



#8 airvpn18259

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Posted 07 December 2016 - 07:57 PM

The closest thing I've read about a VPN company physically controlling servers is - https://www.ovpn.se/en/blog/improvement-of-the-physical-security/



#9 Waterwater10

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Posted 08 December 2016 - 04:34 AM

Let's make a few things clear.

First, if the server is dedicated and is leased under a contract as a server, it means the leasing entity has full control over the hardware,

starting from the BIOS and ending with the drivers, which is not something many VPN providers are using today.

What it actually means is, in case the owner of the server is both security and privacy aware, the server will have an IPMI/iLO/iDRAC

card in which case the owner will install the server OS, with full disk encryption, on their own. Which is the case with Air servers.

The datacenter staff has very little control over such setups, except the physical power switch, even if the server is powered off, the

dm-crypt volumes ensure that the disks are encrypted, and since OpenVPN doesn't log anything, the RAM also stays clean.

Out of dozens of VPN providers I reviewed in the competitive analysis forum area, more than 90% used shared VPS servers.

 

Second, there is completely no correlation between owning the datacenter and being a privacy/freedom of speech focused provider.

Take a look at GoldenFrog, they are having their own hardware (since they are a CDN under another brand) but that doesn't mean they

don't log, or being more committed to your privacy anywhere more than others. The studies show the opposite, as long as your infrastructure

is decentralized among many ISPs, the less you are prone to various attacks and court orders. It's much easier to withdraw a rented server,

than it is to cease entire datacenter operations. And since there is no binding contract except the monthly payment, this happens to every

VPN provider when the datacenter decides to act in an unjustified way. This allows the VPN provider to have the freedom to secure yours.

 

So if anyone sees not owning the datacenter as a disadvantage, I would like to comment on facts which lead to this assumption.

Since this is totally not the case, as I mentioned, it is quite the opposite. The more legal chains there are, the better is for you.

Oh, okay. So when you talk about the servers being on a monthly contract with no ties, can't the company that owns them be ordered to release what little info they have on the serevrs that were rented by Air? There would be ways to track the card payments right?



#10 calcu007

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:00 PM

The closest thing I've read about a VPN company physically controlling servers is - https://www.ovpn.se/en/blog/improvement-of-the-physical-security/

I obtain super fast speeds with their servers.I made some speed test



#11 LZ1

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Posted 13 December 2016 - 11:06 PM

Let's make a few things clear.

First, if the server is dedicated and is leased under a contract as a server, it means the leasing entity has full control over the hardware,

starting from the BIOS and ending with the drivers, which is not something many VPN providers are using today.

What it actually means is, in case the owner of the server is both security and privacy aware, the server will have an IPMI/iLO/iDRAC

card in which case the owner will install the server OS, with full disk encryption, on their own. Which is the case with Air servers.

The datacenter staff has very little control over such setups, except the physical power switch, even if the server is powered off, the

dm-crypt volumes ensure that the disks are encrypted, and since OpenVPN doesn't log anything, the RAM also stays clean.

Out of dozens of VPN providers I reviewed in the competitive analysis forum area, more than 90% used shared VPS servers.

 

Second, there is completely no correlation between owning the datacenter and being a privacy/freedom of speech focused provider.

Take a look at GoldenFrog, they are having their own hardware (since they are a CDN under another brand) but that doesn't mean they

don't log, or being more committed to your privacy anywhere more than others. The studies show the opposite, as long as your infrastructure

is decentralized among many ISPs, the less you are prone to various attacks and court orders. It's much easier to withdraw a rented server,

than it is to cease entire datacenter operations. And since there is no binding contract except the monthly payment, this happens to every

VPN provider when the datacenter decides to act in an unjustified way. This allows the VPN provider to have the freedom to secure yours.

 

So if anyone sees not owning the datacenter as a disadvantage, I would like to comment on facts which lead to this assumption.

Since this is totally not the case, as I mentioned, it is quite the opposite. The more legal chains there are, the better is for you.

Oh, okay. So when you talk about the servers being on a monthly contract with no ties, can't the company that owns them be ordered to release what little info they have on the serevrs that were rented by Air? There would be ways to track the card payments right?

Hello!

 

Surely they'd then only get information on the server hardware and not what runs on them or anything like that :). Thus next to useless I should think. There's always a way to track card payments lol :). Just not necessarily in the ways you're worrying about. Besides, not everyone pays with card or other easily trackable methods.


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#12 Khariz

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:37 PM

The closest thing I've read about a VPN company physically controlling servers is - https://www.ovpn.se/en/blog/improvement-of-the-physical-security/

I obtain super fast speeds with their servers.I made some speed test

 

I've been using OVPN.se for a few days now, ever since they started up their Toronto servers.  I really like these guys.  They explain in great detail the actual commands they execute on their servers to prevent logging, they show how they neuter OpenVPN to prevent logging, they take pictures of the actual servers locked up in their cages with keys that only they have access to, they use no hard drives in their servers (and go into great detail on how they pull that off).  They run their own DNS servers, use DNScrypt to prevent leaks while connecting, etc.

 

It's so clear that they are running their own servers and network, that they even appear to be their own ISP within the datacenter:

 

IP Details of 185.157.163.21
 
Type: Residential
ISP: OVPN Integritet AB
Organization: OVPN Toronto

Domain: ovpn.se

 

 

Very respectable company.  They have been my new #2 to AirVPN.  I think they are doing everything right.  I REALLY like these guys.  Now they they have NA servers available, I may even start liking them more than AirVPN.



#13 calcu007

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:42 PM

The problem is the price of the service too expensive


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#14 Khariz

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Posted 14 December 2016 - 05:45 PM

The problem is the price of the service too expensive


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Is it?  AirVPN is 54 for a year and OVPN.se is 84 for a year.  Yeah, that's more expensive, but they are doing some pretty cool stuff.  I bought a year yesterday just to support them and see how things progress( I have like 2.5 years banked with AirVPN).  Their server-user ratio is ridiculously low (AirVPN does a great job of adding new servers as needed as well).  

 

I'll concede that it's more expensive than AirVPN and that you get "less" for it. But it's actually quite cool how they do what they do.







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