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#21 Br0wnb3ar15

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Posted 24 February 2016 - 11:49 PM

 
 Can you clarify those claims?


1) IMO it is an utter and complete PITA. Others have voiced similar complaints.
2) There is inherent volatility with Bitcoin so there is financial risk.
3) there are a host of trust issues and risks
3.1) Have to find wallet software to trust.
3.2) Have to use good opsec every single time and log in via Tor or VPN minimum.
3.3) Can't buy with prepaid Mastercard or Visa without verifying identify, even then not many do it.
3.4) If you can't buy with prepaid card, it means you have a connection back to personally identifiable info.
3.5) If you purchase in person via local itching there is always the chance of physical danger. Never know who you're meeting up with.
3.6) There is additional risk if you end up with a shady tumbler.
4) Nothing is guaranteed.
5) Everything is captured in the block chain.
6) If you think government authorities aren't all over BC, you've got another thing coming.

So after all that, tell me how that is easier or more secure than getting cash, going to your local store while you're out, buying a prepaid card and using it to purchase VPN services with Air, assuming of course the work with their payment processor to accept prepaid credit cards form the US. Look if you're super paranoid park across the street, wear big sunglasses and a hat when you purchase the card.

+1 Privacy by Combat.

#22 nitehawk

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 03:45 AM

i cannot see on the page all the smaller payment options..is UKASH an option?

or could it become a potential option?

its anonymous..easy..from what  i know..

go to place..buy ukash voucher..enter the X amount of digits online

done.

seems easy enough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukash



#23 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 04:16 AM

Why would anyone with a brain cell want to even try to use UKASH? Your link says it all :@ :think: :confused: :down: :blink: 8d

 

 

As an aside, I closed my Paypal account. Buying bitcoin instead. I couldn't care less about the pro's and con's; last straw for PP for me was after they suddenly ended a long term and friendly relationship with 'Soulseek' without as much as a bye bye thank you. Tossers.


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#24 JoeySatch

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Posted 25 February 2016 - 05:27 AM

If I lived in the US, I would use Blur's masked credit cards (not available yet internationally).  Granted, there is no way of hiding your mailing address (unless you bother with PO boxes or the like) but if you want your name and credit card info hidden, this is the best option I have been able to find outside of Paypal.  Blur is a great company for privacy, IMO.

 

--Satch



#25 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 04 March 2016 - 10:59 PM

I agree with everything I've seen here. Bitcoin is a pain to use, BUT, its the only reasonably anonymous purchase system for US buyer. Unfortunately Airvpn says they can't take cash because of Italian laws?? Dunno, some other European vpns do accept cash,for example via New Zealand, then receive their cash in Europe. I think there's probably a lot of ways Airvpn could accept cash. I like Airvpn a lot, but it seems like they could work a little harder to anonymous payments available...hint, hint, staff.

 

The most anonymous way to buy from US is: buy bitcoin from Localbitcoiin.com from seller who takes cash deposit into her bank account. Electrum bitcoin wallet has a good rep and is easy to use (connect via vpn (Air, Tor, many options...), follow sellers instructions, receive bitcoins: not too bad, but yes you have to make a trip to a local branch of the seller's bank of choice. All of that is maybe one hour of time to buy a year's membership (not including learning curve, but learning is fun :) ). Purchasing just enough bitcoins for Air account and using them immediately removes the price volatility problem. One caution: bitcoin system is nearing maxed-out because its essentially controlled these days by massive Chinese miners who are refusing to increase the block size (I know, TMI)...sooo there may be times when its slow to complete the purchase and/or sale...a problem which will increase in severity with time....ANOTHER REASON WHY AIRVPN SHOULD FIND OTHER ANONYMOUS WAYS FOR USERS TO BUY ACCOUNTS...PLEASE. PRETTY PLEASE.  PPP.....

 

Lastly, bear in mind that any three letter organization (TLO) (think NSA, FSB, GCHQ 3PLA (OK they're 4), etc), can and do track connections to all vpn servers. So they know the ip addresses of anyone connecting to a given vpn server. Even though the data encryption to/from your ip to the vpn server is probably not crackable, the other side of the server traffic is clear text. So with some traffic analysis they have a probabilistic idea which ip is sending/receiving what to/from which web site. So depending on which country you are in, the TLOs either already know who rents which ip, or, best case, they need a court order to make that connection. Bad News: any single vpn server does not provide unbreakable anonymity. Good News: unless you're doing something that seriously pisses-off a TLO, they're not interested, and the vpn provides you anonymity from commercial snooping, hacking, public connections, etc.



#26 Staff

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:06 AM

Hello,

 

accepting payments with cash is not a viable option. It adds an administrative burden which is simply impossible to bear. Maybe services which get just a few dozen payments per day could bear it, but for us it's impossible. Furthermore sending money via mail is illegal.

 

Kind regards



#27 giganerd

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 10:43 AM

accepting payments with cash is not a viable option. It adds an administrative burden which is simply impossible to bear. Maybe services which get just a few dozen payments per day could bear it, but for us it's impossible. Furthermore sending money via mail is illegal.

 

Well, not illegal in Germany. The service to send an insured letter to addresses in Germany or other EU countries offered by our national post office has been discontinued out of many reasons (EU-wide introduction of IBAN, "rise" of PayPal, others). So if something like this is going to be introduced, german users won't be able to take advantage of it. I can imagine smaller offices offering it for a city or a small region but it's not the case where I live for example, so there are even more points against cash payments. :D
 


Always remember:
There's a guide to AirVPN,

Amazon IPs are not dangerous here,
running TOR exits is discouraged,

using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#28 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 09:44 PM

Thanks for responding, staff. OK I get it about the administrative overhead. Maybe you could charge an additional fee for cash payment (10-15 % maybe or whatever would make it worthwhile hiring additional staff to handle it...that would actually be only a little more, overall, than I've paid to use bitcoin). I think lots of Airvpn customers would really appreciate an easy anonymous way to sign up. For several years I've sent cash overseas in a simple envelope, no insurance, and never had a problem. Yes, the sender is taking a risk, but it seems like the mails are pretty safe. Also its looking like Bitcoin may implode due to the block size problem....if that happens, how is Air going to receive anonymous payments? Air staff are no doubt experts in internet living....find an easy anonymous way for your supporters. Cheers.



#29 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 05 March 2016 - 11:33 PM

Giganerd, since it's not illegal to send cash by mail (and really, why should it be ???), then a German user could just send it, no? Where are the points against cash payments?



#30 Staff

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 12:50 AM

Hello!

 

We accept a variety of cryptocurrencies. We do not and we will not accept cash via mail.

 

Kind regards



#31 giganerd

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 01:35 AM

Giganerd, since it's not illegal to send cash by mail (and really, why should it be ???), then a German user could just send it, no? Where are the points against cash payments?

 

Who guarantees you that it will be delivered with the money still inside the envelope? Or delivered at all? ;) Deutsche Post insured your "lost" mail up to 500€, so you had a guarantee of getting back any amount of money smaller than this. Not anymore, so you risk losing it all somewhere along the way.


Always remember:
There's a guide to AirVPN,

Amazon IPs are not dangerous here,
running TOR exits is discouraged,

using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#32 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 04:39 AM

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

 

Cash is King! :)   At least until someone comes up with a truly easy and anonymous crypto-currency.  I think TPTB ultimately want to get rid of cash so that every transaction by every person can be tracked.

 

Anyway, Giganerd, you might enjoy this website: http://www.thunderbolttea.com/    Cheers



#33 giganerd

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 03:08 PM

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

 

It'd be news if your money didn't reach AirVPN. It would be all over the forums, decreasing trust in cash payments with every failed payment brought to the public. You should know that no one will ever open up a thread saying "I used cash payment, it worked, thank you". :D


Always remember:
There's a guide to AirVPN,

Amazon IPs are not dangerous here,
running TOR exits is discouraged,

using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#34 amair

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 05:40 PM

" 3.5) If you purchase in person via local itching there is always the chance of physical danger. Never know who you're meeting up with."

 

In my opinion , this ain't a valid point at all.



#35 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 06 March 2016 - 11:29 PM

@amair....first of all you check the reviews/reputation of anyone you're planning on meeting in person....like EBAY, only buy from folks with lots of good history.

 

Secondly I meant to recommend buy bitcoin by "cash deposit"...you go to a branch of the seller's bank and deposit cash to an account number...completely anonymous other than the ubiquitous cameras these days....unfortunately we're living in a surveillance society...Groucho Marx glasses anyone? Bitcoin is escrowed in Localbitcoin and arbitrated or paid if there is a problem....but same best practice applies: only buy from folks with good history. BTW, if the bank is in some South American countries I've visited, you'll pass guards with machine guns at the entrance...not exactly a warm n fuzzy advertisement for those states' ability to keep their citizens safe.

 

PS: if you're really uncomfortable meeting someone, take a friend. Then there's also always deadman.io = leave a deadman's switch. But really we're getting into murder mystery territory now. Still some towns are more dangerous than others...guess you have to know your locality and use you own best risk management judgement. Some people have more tolerance for risk than others. Cheers.



#36 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:03 AM

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

It'd be news if your money didn't reach AirVPN. It would be all over the forums, decreasing trust in cash payments with every failed payment brought to the public. You should know that no one will ever open up a thread saying "I used cash payment, it worked, thank you". :D

If you're sending cash in the mail, well, it's entirely at your own risk. The receiver (AirVPN?) has no responsibility or culpability if it doesn't arrive. Again, I used to use a vpn for several years that allowed cash payments by mail. Their rates were much higher than Air. So the envelope had a fair bit of moola in it, sent to a country far far away....never had a problem) I only later learned that that far away address was merely a cash drop/forwarding point for the payment which eventually found its way to a European vpn. I imagine quite a lot of people who appreciate privacy and anonymity must have used the cash payment option and I never once (in several years) saw a complaint in the forums about people's payment not being received. Again when you assume a risk like mailing cash, the risk is entirely your own not the recipient's and you would have no credibility complaining about loss in a forum. OF course I'm not suggesting cash be the only option, just that it be an available option for those many vpn users who want as much privacy as possible. :)



#37 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 12:17 AM

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

It'd be news if your money didn't reach AirVPN. It would be all over the forums, decreasing trust in cash payments with every failed payment brought to the public. You should know that no one will ever open up a thread saying "I used cash payment, it worked, thank you". :D

Lastly and somewhat discomfitingly, since AirVPN has to approve every post before it reaches the discerning eyes of forum readers, one assumes such uncreditable complaints would not be allowed "all over the forums"; for your thoughtful consideration :)



#38 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 05:54 PM

 

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

It'd be news if your money didn't reach AirVPN. It would be all over the forums, decreasing trust in cash payments with every failed payment brought to the public. You should know that no one will ever open up a thread saying "I used cash payment, it worked, thank you". :D

If you're sending cash in the mail, well, it's entirely at your own risk. The receiver (AirVPN?) has no responsibility or culpability if it doesn't arrive. Again, I used to use a vpn for several years that allowed cash payments by mail. Their rates were much higher than Air. So the envelope had a fair bit of moola in it, sent to a country far far away....never had a problem) I only later learned that that far away address was merely a cash drop/forwarding point for the payment which eventually found its way to a European vpn. I imagine quite a lot of people who appreciate privacy and anonymity must have used the cash payment option and I never once (in several years) saw a complaint in the forums about people's payment not being received. Again when you assume a risk like mailing cash, the risk is entirely your own not the recipient's and you would have no credibility complaining about loss in a forum. OF course I'm not suggesting cash be the only option, just that it be an available option for those many vpn users who want as much privacy as possible. :)

 

Air have already stated that this is not an option, never has been, and will not be, ever; so why pursue it here because you will not alter anything.

 

 

Who? The same people that guarantee you won't be run over by a car when crossing the street :).  No guanantee...you take risks if you feel the risk/benefit ratio justifies it...or often times, just for luls...I'm thinking free climbers or wingsuit flyers or that guy that walked a tightrope between the Twin Towers. And after all, 54 euros isn't such a big risk. You probably walk around with that much in your wallet...could be lost, could be robbed. Anyway it would be nice to have the choice.

It'd be news if your money didn't reach AirVPN. It would be all over the forums, decreasing trust in cash payments with every failed payment brought to the public. You should know that no one will ever open up a thread saying "I used cash payment, it worked, thank you". :D

Lastly and somewhat discomfitingly, since AirVPN has to approve every post before it reaches the discerning eyes of forum readers, one assumes such uncreditable complaints would not be allowed "all over the forums"; for your thoughtful consideration :)

 

I don't find Air approving forum posts in the least discomforting. Complaints of any kind are allowed and answered. If anyone is so paranoid they feel they cannot trust their VPN service provider then where is there left to go? Rather than that, Air's position on this only strengthens my trust in them, & that they have made and will continue to make the best decisions.



#39 giganerd

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Posted 07 March 2016 - 06:34 PM

Again when you assume a risk like mailing cash, the risk is entirely your own not the recipient's and you would have no credibility complaining about loss in a forum

 

No credibility, but enough people who would complain. Which brings me to this statement:

 

I imagine quite a lot of people who appreciate privacy and anonymity must have used the cash payment option and I never once (in several years) saw a complaint in the forums about people's payment not being received

 

Must have used? Can you proof they used cash to actually write this the way you did?

 

since AirVPN has to approve every post before it reaches the discerning eyes of forum readers

 

Woah, woah, stop right there. This applies only to accounts with <5 posts, and for accounts on the mod queue.


Always remember:
There's a guide to AirVPN,

Amazon IPs are not dangerous here,
running TOR exits is discouraged,

using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#40 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 08 March 2016 - 01:28 AM

A BitCoin voucher woudn't make a good Birthday or other such gift then?







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