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#1 56rohrschach2u

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Posted 06 February 2016 - 11:38 AM

Did AirVPN get an email as well from PayPal?

 

Now it starts to get me really p*****. – Not only that i am already under general suspicion violating copyrighted content and/ or being a terrorist because of using an encrypted way to access the internet (aka using VPN), now PayPal also starts to generalize every attempt to secure my privacy as being a direct violation of their terms and policy.

 

Next will be credit card companies.

 

https://torrentfreak.com/paypal-starts-banning-vpn-and-smartdns-services-160205/



#2 cm0s

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 01:42 AM

what giganerd is gonna say

#3 zhang888

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 02:57 AM

Ironically I think this is a great move.

People will start interesting more in cryptocurrencies, and both the users will

become more anonymous and VPN providers will enjoy less painful payment

proccess, without fraud and chargebacks and crazy fees.

PayPal is a huge rip-off, charging 4% just to move a number in their database

is insane, back in the 90s it was acceptable but definitely not today.

Providers who fail to implement cryptocurrency support should either start

doing so or fade away.


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#4 SirJohnEh

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 04:19 AM

I'll be the first to admit I'm not all that versed in cryptocurrencies, but I have started reading bits and pieces mainly after seeing the various articles about PayPal cutting off unotelly (a DNS service provider that gets people past geolocks).  Accepting bitcoin is wonderful and all, but eventually you (meaning Air or any business with expenses to pay) need to convert those bitcoins into dollars or Euros or whatever it is you need to pay your bills with.  Isn't there the same risk when Air tries to convert those bitcoins into Euros?  I imagine some of their expenses can be paid with bitcoin, but definitely not everything.  Isn't there some kind of risk exchanges (or whatever you use to exchange bitcoins for cash) will also cut off access to services that governments deem "inappropriate"?

 

Again, I admit I know very little in this domain, which is one of the reasons I've never dealt with bitcoin ever.  With no knowledge at all about how it works, etc., I've just stayed away fearing that I might have a digital wallet full of bitcoins and no way to exchange them -- because my bank doesn't take bitcoins for my mortgage, the hydro, natural gas nor water utilities take them, etc.



#5 EdensSpire

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 05:37 AM

Ironically I think this is a great move.

People will start interesting more in cryptocurrencies, and both the users will

become more anonymous and VPN providers will enjoy less painful payment

proccess, without fraud and chargebacks and crazy fees.

PayPal is a huge rip-off, charging 4% just to move a number in their database

is insane, back in the 90s it was acceptable but definitely not today.

Providers who fail to implement cryptocurrency support should either start

doing so or fade away.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not all that versed in cryptocurrencies, but I have started reading bits and pieces mainly after seeing the various articles about PayPal cutting off unotelly (a DNS service provider that gets people past geolocks).  Accepting bitcoin is wonderful and all, but eventually you (meaning Air or any business with expenses to pay) need to convert those bitcoins into dollars or Euros or whatever it is you need to pay your bills with.  Isn't there the same risk when Air tries to convert those bitcoins into Euros?  I imagine some of their expenses can be paid with bitcoin, but definitely not everything.  Isn't there some kind of risk exchanges (or whatever you use to exchange bitcoins for cash) will also cut off access to services that governments deem "inappropriate"?

 

Again, I admit I know very little in this domain, which is one of the reasons I've never dealt with bitcoin ever.  With no knowledge at all about how it works, etc., I've just stayed away fearing that I might have a digital wallet full of bitcoins and no way to exchange them -- because my bank doesn't take bitcoins for my mortgage, the hydro, natural gas nor water utilities take them, etc.

 

As great as bitcoin is there is limits with it, for example some countries don't actually have any way to exchange them, and most that wanna remain anonymous ain't exactly jumping at the opportunity to put their credit card info into a site they don't know much about to exchange their money for bitcoin.



#6 giganerd

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 10:58 AM

I too think PayPal should not elevate themselves to judges of the world, telling what's "good" and "bad" by banning/closing certain accounts. Maybe it's really time to change the online payment provider. But what's the alternative? No other provider is used as widely as PayPal. Thoughts?


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using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#7 zhang888

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Posted 07 February 2016 - 12:26 PM

You cannot simply decide and "change" an acceptable currency, since it's kind of a global concensus.

Just like you cannot change your Euros/Dollars in your wallet because you are not happy with them.

So unfortunatelly PayPal still dominates many online payments, but just like you have some foreign

currency at home now, even if not a hundreds of it, it's always good to keep a little around.

 

The people who are not living in Europe will agree, while you don't have much to do with Euros in

your country, everytime you travel to Europe you find them handy. The rate fluctuates a little, but

if you don't own thousands of it you barely notice. So Bitcoins are the "Euros" for those online travels.


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#8 56rohrschach2u

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:02 PM

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoins for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoins.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoins for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0.12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.



#9 Staff

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:08 PM

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoin for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoin.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoin for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0,12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

That makes no sense, with due respect.

 

You don't need to compensate anything. If you are worried about that, just buy the strictly necessary Bitcoins for your purchases (or sell a service or your work for them) and spend them immediately.

 

Kind regards



#10 giganerd

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 01:29 PM

Bitcoin is highly volatile

 

Agreed.

 


and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

That makes no sense, with due respect.

[...]

If you are worried about that, just buy the strictly necessary Bitcoins for your purchases

 

Also agreed. Especially with the second part.

 

zhang888 likes this

 

Agreed. :D


Always remember:
There's a guide to AirVPN,

Amazon IPs are not dangerous here,
running TOR exits is discouraged,

using spoilers for your logs helps us read your thread.

~ Furthermore, I propose that your paranoia is to be destroyed. ~

Instead of writing me a personal mail, consider contacting me via XMPP at gigan3rd@xmpp.airvpn.org or join the lounge@conference.xmpp.airvpn.org. I might read the mail too late whereas I'm always available on XMPP ;)


#11 iwih2gk

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Posted 08 February 2016 - 07:29 PM

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoins for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoins.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoins for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0.12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

 

Aside from Staff's great response above this post, let me say that if you invested a few thousand in 2009 you would be singing for the rest of your life!  I have been very comfortable with the BTC fluctations, but risk taking excites me.  Crazy huh??



#12 Kepler_438b2

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Posted 11 February 2016 - 07:44 PM

Enough with Paypal. I'm looking for alternatives.



#13 voddyman

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 03:31 PM

Enough with Paypal. I'm looking for alternatives.

I'm with you, but apart from Bitcoin [which I find a tad difficult to understand, but I'm getting old,lol.] what other options are there for anonymous payments, please some tell me  :good:  



#14 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 12 February 2016 - 10:23 PM

Cash! Postal Order (UK), otherwise :dunno:



#15 ZPKZ

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Posted 13 February 2016 - 06:30 PM

Buy "disposable visa"s for cash :)



#16 cammy6

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 06:58 PM

I'm not sure if the question about whether AirVPN got an email from paypal was answered.  Did you guys get an email?  I don't think there have been any changes to the home page and payment options, so I guessing not.  If so, what are the best alternative options for payment. I adore AirVPN and don't want to give it up.



#17 Br0wnb3ar15

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 07:33 PM

Buy "disposable visa"s for cash :)


Problem is that doesn't work for US based customers. Air's payment processor processes transactions in Europe. US law prevents prepaid MasterCard and Visa cards from being used to buy things outside the US.

I'm sure the payment processor could process US transactions through a US node then transfer funds to EU. Staff just needs to make the call.

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

#18 zhang888

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Posted 14 February 2016 - 07:45 PM

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

 

 

Can you clarify those claims?


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#19 Wombat27

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 02:25 PM

US law prevents prepaid MasterCard and Visa cards from being used to buy things outside the US.

 

Does that include virtual credit cards like Entropay?



#20 EdensSpire

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Posted 21 February 2016 - 10:17 PM

I'm not sure if the question about whether AirVPN got an email from paypal was answered.  Did you guys get an email?  I don't think there have been any changes to the home page and payment options, so I guessing not.  If so, what are the best alternative options for payment. I adore AirVPN and don't want to give it up.

 

I doubt they did, reading the torrentfreak article, PayPal went after the provider for geo unblocking which AirVPN doesn't advertise as, they advertise as traffic encryption service which isn't breaking any terms or laws which geo unblocking VERY indirectly does which means paypal can cancel their account without dispute

 

 

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

 

 

Can you clarify those claims?

 

it's risky cuz it's hard to find exchanges to trust and their cost and prices go up and down all the time, much more than the dollar/euro, and then there's a wallet software to trust. Using paypal for example is popular because it's fast and easy.







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