PayPal

[56rohrschach2u 7]

Did AirVPN get an email as well from PayPal?

 

Now it starts to get me really p*****. – Not only that i am already under general suspicion violating copyrighted content and/ or being a terrorist because of using an encrypted way to access the internet (aka using VPN), now PayPal also starts to generalize every attempt to secure my privacy as being a direct violation of their terms and policy.

 

Next will be credit card companies.

 

https://torrentfreak.com/paypal-starts-banning-vpn-and-smartdns-services-160205/

[cm0s 118]

what giganerd is gonna say

[zhang888 1066]

Ironically I think this is a great move.

People will start interesting more in cryptocurrencies, and both the users will

become more anonymous and VPN providers will enjoy less painful payment

proccess, without fraud and chargebacks and crazy fees.

PayPal is a huge rip-off, charging 4% just to move a number in their database

is insane, back in the 90s it was acceptable but definitely not today.

Providers who fail to implement cryptocurrency support should either start

doing so or fade away.

[SirJohnEh 6]

I'll be the first to admit I'm not all that versed in cryptocurrencies, but I have started reading bits and pieces mainly after seeing the various articles about PayPal cutting off unotelly (a DNS service provider that gets people past geolocks).  Accepting bitcoin is wonderful and all, but eventually you (meaning Air or any business with expenses to pay) need to convert those bitcoins into dollars or Euros or whatever it is you need to pay your bills with.  Isn't there the same risk when Air tries to convert those bitcoins into Euros?  I imagine some of their expenses can be paid with bitcoin, but definitely not everything.  Isn't there some kind of risk exchanges (or whatever you use to exchange bitcoins for cash) will also cut off access to services that governments deem "inappropriate"?

 

Again, I admit I know very little in this domain, which is one of the reasons I've never dealt with bitcoin ever.  With no knowledge at all about how it works, etc., I've just stayed away fearing that I might have a digital wallet full of bitcoins and no way to exchange them -- because my bank doesn't take bitcoins for my mortgage, the hydro, natural gas nor water utilities take them, etc.

[Guest]

Ironically I think this is a great move.

People will start interesting more in cryptocurrencies, and both the users will

become more anonymous and VPN providers will enjoy less painful payment

proccess, without fraud and chargebacks and crazy fees.

PayPal is a huge rip-off, charging 4% just to move a number in their database

is insane, back in the 90s it was acceptable but definitely not today.

Providers who fail to implement cryptocurrency support should either start

doing so or fade away.

I'll be the first to admit I'm not all that versed in cryptocurrencies, but I have started reading bits and pieces mainly after seeing the various articles about PayPal cutting off unotelly (a DNS service provider that gets people past geolocks).  Accepting bitcoin is wonderful and all, but eventually you (meaning Air or any business with expenses to pay) need to convert those bitcoins into dollars or Euros or whatever it is you need to pay your bills with.  Isn't there the same risk when Air tries to convert those bitcoins into Euros?  I imagine some of their expenses can be paid with bitcoin, but definitely not everything.  Isn't there some kind of risk exchanges (or whatever you use to exchange bitcoins for cash) will also cut off access to services that governments deem "inappropriate"?

 

Again, I admit I know very little in this domain, which is one of the reasons I've never dealt with bitcoin ever.  With no knowledge at all about how it works, etc., I've just stayed away fearing that I might have a digital wallet full of bitcoins and no way to exchange them -- because my bank doesn't take bitcoins for my mortgage, the hydro, natural gas nor water utilities take them, etc.

 

As great as bitcoin is there is limits with it, for example some countries don't actually have any way to exchange them, and most that wanna remain anonymous ain't exactly jumping at the opportunity to put their credit card info into a site they don't know much about to exchange their money for bitcoin.

[OpenSourcerer 1435]

I too think PayPal should not elevate themselves to judges of the world, telling what's "good" and "bad" by banning/closing certain accounts. Maybe it's really time to change the online payment provider. But what's the alternative? No other provider is used as widely as PayPal. Thoughts?

[zhang888 1066]

You cannot simply decide and "change" an acceptable currency, since it's kind of a global concensus.

Just like you cannot change your Euros/Dollars in your wallet because you are not happy with them.

So unfortunatelly PayPal still dominates many online payments, but just like you have some foreign

currency at home now, even if not a hundreds of it, it's always good to keep a little around.

 

The people who are not living in Europe will agree, while you don't have much to do with Euros in

your country, everytime you travel to Europe you find them handy. The rate fluctuates a little, but

if you don't own thousands of it you barely notice. So Bitcoins are the "Euros" for those online travels.

[56rohrschach2u 7]

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoins for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoins.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoins for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0.12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

[Staff 9968]

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoin for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoin.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoin for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0,12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

That makes no sense, with due respect.

 

You don't need to compensate anything. If you are worried about that, just buy the strictly necessary Bitcoins for your purchases (or sell a service or your work for them) and spend them immediately.

 

Kind regards

[OpenSourcerer 1435]

Bitcoin is highly volatile

 

Agreed.

 

 

and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

That makes no sense, with due respect.

[...]

If you are worried about that, just buy the strictly necessary Bitcoins for your purchases

 

Also agreed. Especially with the second part.

 

zhang888 likes this

 

Agreed.

[iwih2gk 93]

The thing about Bitcoin for me aside the lack of knowledge with the "how's" and "where's" is its volatility.

 

If i would've bought Bitcoins for EUR 54.- (yearly AirVPN plan) on Feb-08-2015 i would've got ~0.26866 Bitcoins.

 

Today, on Feb-08-2016, i get ~0.15863 Bitcoins for EUR 54.- which is a decrease of ~69.36% and bought on Dec-18-2015 (last year's highest) i would have got ~0.12638 Bitcoins for EUR 54.-/ decrease of ~112.581% (to Feb-08-2015) while the inflation rate for the EUR was ~0.1% during this time. Plus paying the fees of a Bitcoin broker.

 

Bitcoin is highly volatile and i am not in the financial situation to compensate it.

 

 

Aside from Staff's great response above this post, let me say that if you invested a few thousand in 2009 you would be singing for the rest of your life!  I have been very comfortable with the BTC fluctations, but risk taking excites me.  Crazy huh??

[Kepler_438b2 4]

Enough with Paypal. I'm looking for alternatives.

[voddyman 5]

Enough with Paypal. I'm looking for alternatives.

I'm with you, but apart from Bitcoin [which I find a tad difficult to understand, but I'm getting old,lol.] what other options are there for anonymous payments, please some tell me    

[me.moo@posteo.me 80]

Cash! Postal Order (UK), otherwise

[Guest]

Buy "disposable visa"s for cash

[cammy6 0]

I'm not sure if the question about whether AirVPN got an email from paypal was answered.  Did you guys get an email?  I don't think there have been any changes to the home page and payment options, so I guessing not.  If so, what are the best alternative options for payment. I adore AirVPN and don't want to give it up.

[Br0wnb3ar15 2]

Buy "disposable visa"s for cash

Problem is that doesn't work for US based customers. Air's payment processor processes transactions in Europe. US law prevents prepaid MasterCard and Visa cards from being used to buy things outside the US.

 

I'm sure the payment processor could process US transactions through a US node then transfer funds to EU. Staff just needs to make the call.

 

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

[zhang888 1066]

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

 

 

Can you clarify those claims?

[Wombat27 1]

US law prevents prepaid MasterCard and Visa cards from being used to buy things outside the US.

 

Does that include virtual credit cards like Entropay?

[Guest]

I'm not sure if the question about whether AirVPN got an email from paypal was answered.  Did you guys get an email?  I don't think there have been any changes to the home page and payment options, so I guessing not.  If so, what are the best alternative options for payment. I adore AirVPN and don't want to give it up.

 

I doubt they did, reading the torrentfreak article, PayPal went after the provider for geo unblocking which AirVPN doesn't advertise as, they advertise as traffic encryption service which isn't breaking any terms or laws which geo unblocking VERY indirectly does which means paypal can cancel their account without dispute

 

 

 

However, staff to come up with a solution other than Bitcoin. Bitcoin is riskier than people let on thanks to bad actors and presents an illusion of anonymity. Governments are watching it like a hawk because it's a disintermediating unregulated currency. It's also a PITA to set up and sort out.

 

 

Can you clarify those claims?

 

it's risky cuz it's hard to find exchanges to trust and their cost and prices go up and down all the time, much more than the dollar/euro, and then there's a wallet software to trust. Using paypal for example is popular because it's fast and easy.

[Br0wnb3ar15 2]

 

 Can you clarify those claims?

1) IMO it is an utter and complete PITA. Others have voiced similar complaints.

2) There is inherent volatility with Bitcoin so there is financial risk.

3) there are a host of trust issues and risks

3.1) Have to find wallet software to trust.

3.2) Have to use good opsec every single time and log in via Tor or VPN minimum.

3.3) Can't buy with prepaid Mastercard or Visa without verifying identify, even then not many do it.

3.4) If you can't buy with prepaid card, it means you have a connection back to personally identifiable info.

3.5) If you purchase in person via local itching there is always the chance of physical danger. Never know who you're meeting up with.

3.6) There is additional risk if you end up with a shady tumbler.

4) Nothing is guaranteed.

5) Everything is captured in the block chain.

6) If you think government authorities aren't all over BC, you've got another thing coming.

 

So after all that, tell me how that is easier or more secure than getting cash, going to your local store while you're out, buying a prepaid card and using it to purchase VPN services with Air, assuming of course the work with their payment processor to accept prepaid credit cards form the US. Look if you're super paranoid park across the street, wear big sunglasses and a hat when you purchase the card.

 

+1 Privacy by Combat.

[nitehawk 4]

i cannot see on the page all the smaller payment options..is UKASH an option?

or could it become a potential option?

its anonymous..easy..from what  i know..

go to place..buy ukash voucher..enter the X amount of digits online

done.

seems easy enough

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukash

[me.moo@posteo.me 80]

Why would anyone with a brain cell want to even try to use UKASH? Your link says it all

 

 

As an aside, I closed my Paypal account. Buying bitcoin instead. I couldn't care less about the pro's and con's; last straw for PP for me was after they suddenly ended a long term and friendly relationship with 'Soulseek' without as much as a bye bye thank you. Tossers.

[JoeySatch 0]

If I lived in the US, I would use Blur's masked credit cards (not available yet internationally).  Granted, there is no way of hiding your mailing address (unless you bother with PO boxes or the like) but if you want your name and credit card info hidden, this is the best option I have been able to find outside of Paypal.  Blur is a great company for privacy, IMO.

 

--Satch

[Kepler_438b2 4]

I agree with everything I've seen here. Bitcoin is a pain to use, BUT, its the only reasonably anonymous purchase system for US buyer. Unfortunately Airvpn says they can't take cash because of Italian laws?? Dunno, some other European vpns do accept cash,for example via New Zealand, then receive their cash in Europe. I think there's probably a lot of ways Airvpn could accept cash. I like Airvpn a lot, but it seems like they could work a little harder to anonymous payments available...hint, hint, staff.

 

The most anonymous way to buy from US is: buy bitcoin from Localbitcoiin.com from seller who takes cash deposit into her bank account. Electrum bitcoin wallet has a good rep and is easy to use (connect via vpn (Air, Tor, many options...), follow sellers instructions, receive bitcoins: not too bad, but yes you have to make a trip to a local branch of the seller's bank of choice. All of that is maybe one hour of time to buy a year's membership (not including learning curve, but learning is fun ). Purchasing just enough bitcoins for Air account and using them immediately removes the price volatility problem. One caution: bitcoin system is nearing maxed-out because its essentially controlled these days by massive Chinese miners who are refusing to increase the block size (I know, TMI)...sooo there may be times when its slow to complete the purchase and/or sale...a problem which will increase in severity with time....ANOTHER REASON WHY AIRVPN SHOULD FIND OTHER ANONYMOUS WAYS FOR USERS TO BUY ACCOUNTS...PLEASE. PRETTY PLEASE.  PPP.....

 

Lastly, bear in mind that any three letter organization (TLO) (think NSA, FSB, GCHQ 3PLA (OK they're 4), etc), can and do track connections to all vpn servers. So they know the ip addresses of anyone connecting to a given vpn server. Even though the data encryption to/from your ip to the vpn server is probably not crackable, the other side of the server traffic is clear text. So with some traffic analysis they have a probabilistic idea which ip is sending/receiving what to/from which web site. So depending on which country you are in, the TLOs either already know who rents which ip, or, best case, they need a court order to make that connection. Bad News: any single vpn server does not provide unbreakable anonymity. Good News: unless you're doing something that seriously pisses-off a TLO, they're not interested, and the vpn provides you anonymity from commercial snooping, hacking, public connections, etc.