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airvpn vs Private Internet Access how do compare to them ?


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#1 mrblurayman

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 01:37 AM

Hi this might sound dumb sorry but can I ask how u compare your self to Private Internet Access ??? would you say you are better ? and have same sort of specs ? only think I do know they claim to have over 1000 IPS' for say Turkey and different states in USA ETC. I am with them but there live chat is a joke some times u wait 5 min's for a reply.also can I ask how many have come from there to join airvpn ? Thank you.

 

p.s I have tested your servers and found all to be very fast and hot over 75 in speed test which is very good.Please forgive my poor spelling and English.



#2 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 12:22 PM

I wonder what we will say?

'5 mins', how awful.



#3 UnBurrito

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 01:24 PM

Depends what you're after, I have both, but in my opinion Airvpn is the better. Also depends where you're located and where you want to connect to. PIA have a lot of servers all over the world.

 

For port forwarding and speed Airvpn wins. I like how you can see usage on here too.



#4 Stampy

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:11 PM

I have been with PIA for 3 Years and the service Is great but the 2 downsides are the company is located in the USA + the client is terrible, It would show green and connected but I actually wasn't and my real IP was exposed while using P2P ( Even with Killswitch enabled ).

 

AIR's Client is amazing and has never done that to me. Also AIR offer OpenVPN over SSL which helps me bypass ISP throttling.

 

Only thing I would like to see is AIR increase the amount of connections you can have per account.



#5 me.moo@posteo.me

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 03:36 PM

I have been with PIA for 3 Years and the service Is great but the 2 downsides are the company is located in the USA + the client is terrible, It would show green and connected but I actually wasn't and my real IP was exposed while using P2P ( Even with Killswitch enabled ).

 

AIR's Client is amazing and has never done that to me. Also AIR offer OpenVPN over SSL which helps me bypass ISP throttling.

 

Only thing I would like to see is AIR increase the amount of connections you can have per account.

Seems to me you mention four downsides to PIA, two of which are rather crucial when relying on a VPN for privacy i.e. reliability and functionality 8d



#6 rickjames

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 04:50 PM

Doesn't PIA use VPS servers?

#7 zhang888

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:36 PM

Doesn't PIA use VPS servers?

 

Yes, confirmed somewhere in May when we had a long discussion about how the analysis was done.

There is nothing "terribly" wrong in using VPS servers in case you specify it somehow and letting your users know.

I think it's their basic right to know. Which brings us to the lies about the bandwidth.

 

 Israel israel.privateinternetaccess.com Israel 12

12000 Mbps

 

There is no, single provider in the entire middle-east that offers symmetric 1Gbit speeds. Not even full 95th percentile of 100Mbit.

Traffic costs do not justify that, this is second only to Australia in terms of prices.

 

So 2.7 TB/ps total bandwidth for a VPN provider without own datacenter? Yeah, bye.


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#8 Stampy

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:49 PM

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

Doesn't PIA use VPS servers?

 

Yes, confirmed somewhere in May when we had a long discussion about how the analysis was done.

There is nothing "terribly" wrong in using VPS servers in case you specify it somehow and letting your users know.

I think it's their basic right to know. Which brings us to the lies about the bandwidth.

 

 Israel israel.privateinternetaccess.com Israel 12

12000 Mbps

 

There is no, single provider in the entire middle-east that offers symmetric 1Gbit speeds. Not even full 95th percentile of 100Mbit.

Traffic costs do not justify that, this is second only to Australia in terms of prices.

 

So 2.7 TB/ps total bandwidth for a VPN provider without own datacenter? Yeah, bye.



#9 Stampy

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 05:54 PM

Would just like to confirm PIA does not use VPS servers they use " bare metal " Servers they own and ship to the Datacentre.

 

Source: https://www.privateinternetaccess.com/forum/discussion/15845/pia-is-included-as-hosting-server-ip-range

 

You will see PIA Support commented on the thread.



#10 rickjames

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 06:17 PM

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...



#11 zhang888

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 06:19 PM

There are many threads about that on their forums.

/forum/discussion/4646/choopa-llc

 

The idea is that they rely mainly on 2 U.S. based companies (Choopa and Equinix) for large parts of the world.

This is important because then they are legally obligated to log and comply with DMCAs, which I am sure they do.

You can probably "lab test" it by subscribing with them for a week, then downloading some public top 100 torrents.

Most likely your account will be warned, flagged or suspended. I never seen a person who got suspended here for DMCA.

Note that I am not suggesting anyone to do so, this was just an example of why the above note is important.

 

Also, you can simply run a speedtest from a high-speed server in your environment. When an alleged 1Gbit VPN server

can barely push 50Mbit in/out your connected 1Gbit server, someone here is not doing business honestly.

 

Added:

 

Subscriber understands that Privateinternetaccess.com also reserves the right to scale back or throttle bandwidth originating from subscriber accounts that may breach the present Agreement or in the event of excessive usage on the Privateinternetaccess.com network.

 

:no: 


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#12 go558a83nk

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 10:35 PM

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...

 

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?



#13 rainmakerraw

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Posted 19 July 2015 - 11:14 PM

There are many threads about that on their forums.

/forum/discussion/4646/choopa-llc

 

The idea is that they rely mainly on 2 U.S. based companies (Choopa and Equinix) for large parts of the world.

This is important because then they are legally obligated to log and comply with DMCAs, which I am sure they do.

You can probably "lab test" it by subscribing with them for a week, then downloading some public top 100 torrents.

Most likely your account will be warned, flagged or suspended. I never seen a person who got suspended here for DMCA.

Note that I am not suggesting anyone to do so, this was just an example of why the above note is important.

 

Also, you can simply run a speedtest from a high-speed server in your environment. When an alleged 1Gbit VPN server

can barely push 50Mbit in/out your connected 1Gbit server, someone here is not doing business honestly.

 

Added:

 

Subscriber understands that Privateinternetaccess.com also reserves the right to scale back or throttle bandwidth originating from subscriber accounts that may breach the present Agreement or in the event of excessive usage on the Privateinternetaccess.com network.

 

:no: 

 

I've been downloading various torrents through them for near three years, and never heard a peep. They publish warrants/requests also, and the reply is always 'we have no data to supply you'. So on that score not so worrying. The clause about throttling is laughable however, especially when they place so much marketing emphasis on their 'biggest VPN network', 'thousands of servers' bumph. I have subs to PIA, AirVPN, VPN.ac, Proxy.sh and others. I've no axe to grind either way, as they all have their uses. PIA's SOCKS5 proxy is like lightning for me (160Mbps down) but I trust Air's openvpn way more for 'sensitive' stuff like banking, online purchasing, chats etc.

 

PIA's app is a joke, and I've been a long-running critic of it on their forums. Staff just fob you off, or (as of late) just literally ignore you completely and answer everyone else in the thread but you. It's pathetic. Their support is terrible, also. They read a script and if you ask anything remotely 'off script' like "Why does your app only work on Ubuntu? What can I do to get it running on Arch/Debian/Whatever?' they reply invariably with 'Ask the customers on the user forum. They will try to help you'. Um, no... That's supposed to be what I'm paying YOU guys CASH for.

 

AirVPN all the way, overall. If only they'd add a HTTP and SOCKS5 proxy to the services list I'd have the only provider I need. :(



#14 zhang888

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 12:41 AM

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?

 

 

Since I assume this was aimed at me, what was the real question? Oh wait, before you post it in a different way. My research was posted in late May, is there

any reason why the entire Germany and Sweden IP spaces (The previous provider of theirs, bd from WebExxpurts, is a really good friend of mine under another nickname, which sells only VPS boxes) and all the records were changed on 12-06-2015? Just a week after those revelations?

I prefer to call it a coincidence. Our life is full of them anyway.

 

And what about the Vultr IP space in Germany?

This whole thing went way beyond the VPS/Dedicated thing. Are PIA liars? Yes they are, at least in the bandwidth false claims.

Next plausible question. If they lie about one thing, how probable is the reason they will lie about others, such as logging?

I will leave that for the readers. I am not here to boost sales of one provider on top of another. After all there are very good

and obvious reasons we are using Air here. You can compare PIA to HideMyAss and so on, but if you want to compare Air,

there are other providers that can have a direct competition, although I will not name them here to save the trolling and holy wars.

The exercise for the advanced reader is to review their infrastructure/privacy/locations policy and write here back.

Only after such 3d party review this conversation can have a true, unaffiliated, 3d party feedbacks.


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#15 rickjames

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 12:49 AM

 

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...

 

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?

 

-probable:

supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof.

 

I'm sorry but if there's even a 1% chance that they currently, or have in the past used vps's servers then not trusting them is my prerogative. And I carry on with this probable false claim because its my right to do so. -Freedom of speech, its why many are here.

 

Frankly Its not my job to prove them reliable, secure or otherwise. Nor should it be yours.

 

Even if the whole vps issue never came to light, for me it wouldn't make any difference. Because I would never use a vpn company based out of a location that requires you by law to log. One would think that fact alone would be enough to temper the fury of all but the most hardcore fanboys. Just ask yourself how long could a US company stay in business while breaking the law.

 

I have no facts, but the answer to the above question should be self evident.



#16 go558a83nk

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:22 AM

 

 

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...

 

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?

-probable:

supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof.

 

I'm sorry but if there's even a 1% chance that they currently, or have in the past used vps's servers then not trusting them is my prerogative. And I carry on with this probable false claim because its my right to do so. -Freedom of speech, its why many are here.

 

Frankly Its not my job to prove them reliable, secure or otherwise. Nor should it be yours.

 

Even if the whole vps issue never came to light, for me it wouldn't make any difference. Because I would never use a vpn company based out of a location that requires you by law to log. One would think that fact alone would be enough to temper the fury of all but the most hardcore fanboys. Just ask yourself how long could a US company stay in business while breaking the law.

 

I have no facts, but the answer to the above question should be self evident.

 

can you point me to the law in the USA that requires VPN to log?



#17 Stampy

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 12:10 PM

VPN's aren't required to Log in the USA but if there is abuse committed on the VPN then they can easily be forced to Log.

 

 

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...

 

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?

 

-probable:

supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof.

 

I'm sorry but if there's even a 1% chance that they currently, or have in the past used vps's servers then not trusting them is my prerogative. And I carry on with this probable false claim because its my right to do so. -Freedom of speech, its why many are here.

 

Frankly Its not my job to prove them reliable, secure or otherwise. Nor should it be yours.

 

Even if the whole vps issue never came to light, for me it wouldn't make any difference. Because I would never use a vpn company based out of a location that requires you by law to log. One would think that fact alone would be enough to temper the fury of all but the most hardcore fanboys. Just ask yourself how long could a US company stay in business while breaking the law.

 

I have no facts, but the answer to the above question should be self evident.



#18 go558a83nk

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:11 PM

VPN's aren't required to Log in the USA but if there is abuse committed on the VPN then they can easily be forced to Log.

 


 

 


 

 

Using VPS servers means you are sharing a 1Gbps Port with other users on that server so that would mean their bandwidth is a lie and that would also mean they lied on their Torrentfreak Questions as they say they own their own servers. Can you find the link as to where this is confirmed ? Does AIR use their own hardware? with Dedicated servers? really its the only way to be sure that the VPN servers are not logging as with a VPS you can't be sure what the datacentre is doing. 

 

Air's stated they use all dedicated servers on the vpn infrastructure.

There's a thread around here somewhere 'still looking for it' where someone posted the ip's of several pia servers. Those ip's were living on vps's. Edit found it: https://airvpn.org/topic/14326-question-regarding-airvpns-your-ip/?p=28310

 

For me I would worry more about vps security/separation from other virtualized environments running on the same machine. Virtualization tech hasn't exactly had the greatest track record where security is concerned.

 

ie. Worst case scenario: someone setting up shop on a vps running on the same machine as the vpn vps could silently Farm gold...

 

pretty sure I refuted that claim.  the person who proposed they were VPS never replied to my refutation.  why?  and why do you carry on with the probable false claim?

-probable:

supported by evidence strong enough to establish presumption but not proof.

 

I'm sorry but if there's even a 1% chance that they currently, or have in the past used vps's servers then not trusting them is my prerogative. And I carry on with this probable false claim because its my right to do so. -Freedom of speech, its why many are here.

 

Frankly Its not my job to prove them reliable, secure or otherwise. Nor should it be yours.

 

Even if the whole vps issue never came to light, for me it wouldn't make any difference. Because I would never use a vpn company based out of a location that requires you by law to log. One would think that fact alone would be enough to temper the fury of all but the most hardcore fanboys. Just ask yourself how long could a US company stay in business while breaking the law.

 

I have no facts, but the answer to the above question should be self evident.

 

the same can be said of AirVPN and any VPN if the request from authority is lawful.  see https://airvpn.org/topic/7181-clarification-of-your-monitoring-policies/#entry29972



#19 sheivoko

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 01:26 PM

This thread is at risk of getting out of hand, so I'll keep my arguments as concise and neutral as possible:

1. Asking for an unbiased comparison in one of the competitor's forums is not ideal. This sort of topic is better discussed on a neutral platform.

2. No matter which VPN provider you choose; no matter which jurisdiction they're in, there are a few constants:

  • they're all companies, compelled to make money and abide law  
  • you have to trust them: you're unable to get an inside look of their operation (which you would need for a proper evaluation)
  • which means: some aspects of your evaluation will be based on opinion/experience/conjecture, but not fact

3.

"can you point me to the law in the USA that requires VPN to log?"

 

Sure, three laws in particular:

 

18 U.S. Code § 3123 - Issuance of an order for a pen register or a trap and trace device:

 

[...] installing and using its own pen register or trap and trace device on a packet-switched data network of a provider of electronic communication service to the public

 

Also, 18 U.S. Code § 2703 - Required disclosure of customer communications or records.

 

And, most worrying, 18 U.S. Code § 2709 - Counterintelligence access to telephone toll and transactional records (commonly known as "National Security Letter" / gag order):

 

[...] no wire or electronic communications service provider, or officer, employee, or agent thereof, shall disclose to any person (other than those to whom such disclosure is necessary to comply with the request or an attorney to obtain legal advice or legal assistance with respect to the request) that the Federal Bureau of Investigation has sought or obtained access to information or records under this section.

 

While these laws are designed to subpoena individual customer records, their application will likely and regularly affect the whole customer base. Remember Lavabit:
"The service suspended its operations on August 8, 2013 after US government ordered it to turn over its Secure Sockets Layer (SSL) private keys" (affecting all Lavabit users).

4.

"They publish warrants"

 

They only publish warrants they're allowed to publish, see 18 U.S. Code § 2703. Companies are much more likely to behave like Hushmail (silently comply) than to behave like Lavabit (resist and be forced to close shop). There is no middle ground.

 

5. I am convinced that European Union data protection laws provide a better environment for VPN providers.

 
6. I am not convinced that it makes a huge difference to be located outside of the US. It would be a fallacy to assume "US = bad, Non-US = good":

  • similar laws exist in all jurisdictions
  • governments tend to ignore legal restraints anyway

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#20 Stampy

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Posted 20 July 2015 - 06:10 PM

I believe it is against EU law for AIR to monitor anyone so they can't be forced to do anything about it unless the site is running actively behind one of AIRs severs then they can easily see it and stop the abuse but as for past activities they can do nothing.







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