Termination of service in Italy

[go558a83nk 362]

4 hours ago, jimmycarter00 said:

Why AirVPN is the only one that will make this? Why other vpn will stay still in Italy?

what other VPN is headquartered in Italy?

[Kayn 0]

I do get the concern about being under this specific jurisdiction, but please don't give up on provide your service also to italians. I say this because I'm one of them and I'd be very sorry about leaving this VPN. I'm not even using this for achieving what this Piracy Shield is trying to block, so what I'm about to say is not coming from a biased point of view.
Isn't the "mission" of all the VPN providers to allow people to be free ? Or at least it should be...
I don't wanna seems too ideological, I say that again: I do understand your insecurity about the circumstances that are taking place, yours is not an easy situation to deal with.

I'm not a lawyer, but I mean... what if you would "simply" move your legal head office outside Italy ? At that point you'd be in the same position as all others VPN providers. I'd really wanna see how the things would go if then the AGCOM or any other related subject would pretend from an abroad VPN service to block an IP or whaterver... I really don't think this is doable; sure not in 30 minute, but not even in one hundred years.
Legal head office outside of Italy and also the servers outside of Italy, all the VPN environment would be away from Italy. At that point what woud be the real power of this Piracy Shield ? I mean it's not a control on the infrastructure network like the Great Firewall for example; and by the way there're VPN that works even in very complicated situations like that one. I do think that your future is really in your heands and no one else.

[Riddick 13]

On 2/7/2024 at 11:59 PM, tranquivox69 said:

I fail to understand how something like this, clearly escaping due process, can be considered legal. I hope for Italians that this will not end here and people will challenge it in courts.

I feel for the Italians, but how can you challenge a corrupt government "this is all part of the plan" not country specific but world-wide !
One small step for Italy, one giant leap for World domination

[foDkc4UySz 9]

On 2/9/2024 at 9:46 PM, Riddick said:

not country specific but world-wide !

Exactly. A business migration to an "offshore, sovereign nation" might seem like the best solution here, but it's just a hammer putting an angle to the nail.

Sure, (Corporation, et al) Taxes might be lower elsewhere, but the proposed unregulated, dynamic blacklist system being implemented in Italy, applies globally to AirVPN's and all Italian resident-customers.

If AirVPN were to still be a registered Italian business, and somehow implement technological bypasses of the blacklist to reallow Italian resident-customers, then even a layman could see an argument for detrimental culpability subject to their own business registation laws, if they wish to continue operating out of Italian jurisdiction.

I'm certain that the Owners, Staff, Lawyers of AirVPN, being at least of Italian business registration since inception, are taking this legislative battle to heart.

Many others will too: I'd bet there'll be an EU review into the frameworks implementation sooner rather than later, once it's filtering impact and resonance are actualised.

@Staff Will do whatever they feel is most legal, and best feasible. But there's one reason why we're customers:

A "VPN operated by activists in defense of net neutrality, privacy and against censorship."

That time is now.

 

 

[britishstyle 2]

On 2/8/2024 at 2:06 PM, misam said:

Still unclear to me what happens to Italian customers with current subscriptions expiring after the deadline, as others already asked.
My sub expires in 2 years from now. Can I still use it until that expiry date or not? Thanks @Staff for a prompt reply.

That's what I'm wondering too.

[xeyet21740 1]

16 hours ago, britishstyle said:

That's what I'm wondering too.

Obviously current subscriptions will be OK as said in their first post " We will not interrupt the service to current subscribers until the natural expiry date "

[crypto1.0 4]

Very sad to read this, even if understandable.
Anybody know if other VPN services are taking the same action or italian peoples are somehow doomed?

[Crewman6639 4]

7 hours ago, crypto1.0 said:

Very sad to read this, even if understandable.
Anybody know if other VPN services are taking the same action or italian peoples are somehow doomed?

I think most VPNs are taking a "wait and see" approach. Quad9 DNS has been affected by it though and has been forced to globally block certain sites under protest.

It appears as if the Italian government is going to use Quad9 as its test case to try and get a friendly court judgement before it attempts to go after other companies who may have more financial resources.

The only other company I have read about that is having issues is the Italian authorities wanting Google to do more about apps on the play store.

[fsy 34]

I would just like to send this message to Italian VOTERS through one of the AirVPN founder's favourite songs, if my memory serves me right.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JIxJmudIrqE

[NaDre 157]

I find myself wondering about details of EU extradition processes.

Would Italian prosecutors be able to make a credible request to another EU member to extradite officers of a company that ignored a block request under this Italian law? Would that have been a risk for the folks who operate Quad9, if they had refused?

What if Hungary wanted to prevent its citizens from accessing web sites that are critical of their governments policies? Could they use what Italy is doing as a precedent?

Where would other EU countries draw the line?
 

[Staff 9972]

@NaDre

Hello!

Extradition process pertains to criminal offenses so it is inappropriate to mention it here. Quad9 was already challenged in a German court by Sony Germany following a preliminary injunction against Quad9 with the Regional Court in Hamburg to force Quad9 to stop resolving certain domain names. Quad9, according to their press release, received another request by Sony Italia et al. for other DNS poisoning before the previous appeal trial was concluded. In order not to open multiple legal fronts they momentarily complied. Now that Quad9 won clearly against Sony Germany who knows, they could decide to refuse Sony Italia et al. requirements as well and see whether, after the important victory in court which sets a great precedent in Germany, Sony Italia et al. can manage to obtain some preliminary injunction by some court or not. We're talking here of attempts which are matter for civil law, nobody ever called for any criminal offense.

The above case pertains to requests by private actors to other private actors. A request by a Telecommunication Authority of a country to a private company in a foreign country should follow the proper jurisdictional channels through the courts and/or the Authority of the foreign country, if at all possible, and to date it is not known at least for what we know. The harmonization of the Single Market should aim at avoiding inconsistencies between Member States in policy matters which fall under the EU competence so some of your questions still remain unanswered.

Kind regards
 

[Old Fella 10]

On 2/15/2024 at 8:47 AM, Staff said:

@NaDre

The harmonization of the Single Market should aim at avoiding inconsistencies between Member States in policy matters which fall under the EU competence so some of your questions still remain unanswered.
 

The inconsistencies of EU policies were the reason most peope in the UK voted to get out of it. I don't want to open up that debate (is done and dusted anyway) but all this is a good example of a single EU member state legislating on such a fundamental citizen rights issue with what appears to be a total disregard to what the EU stance is or might be.

[tranquivox69 27]

On 2/16/2024 at 10:56 PM, Old Fella said:

The inconsistencies of EU policies were the reason most people in the UK voted to get out of it

I know you said you didn't want to open a debate but, come on... that clearly has never been the reason for *most* people.

Also, this aberrant law led to what it inevitably was going to lead to: https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-shield-cloudflare-disaster-blocks-countless-sites-fires-up-opposition-240226/

[Staff 9972]

10 hours ago, tranquivox69 said:

this aberrant law led to what it inevitably was going to lead to: https://torrentfreak.com/piracy-shield-cloudflare-disaster-blocks-countless-sites-fires-up-opposition-240226/

Hello!

We were easy prophets in this case. The catastrophic blackout referred to in the article is a concrete example of the risk we denounced, a violation of fundamental rights, a confirmation of the wisdom of our decision and a demonstration of the irresponsible and odious frivolity of decisions taken by private actors. Our infrastructure must not be polluted by repugnant decisions taken by private entities that seem to have little or no technical competence and that, so far, enjoy impunity for any mistake, no matter how serious.

Kind regards
 

[ss11 15]

On 2/8/2024 at 12:36 AM, jimmycarter00 said:

It will be possible to buy through a different vpn?

That is a silly and childish question. How do you expect staff to answer that? Since I am not staff or related in any way with AirVPN, I will give you a point of view for this from just a normal fellow in your community.
Staff clearly mentioned that there is a legal framework in place. Law should not be commented but obeyed. Which is why AirVPN is obeying and respecting the law, and not allowing customers from Italy.
Since there is no legal requirement to ask for face scan or identity card when registering a VPN account, the only way for the service to know where you are ordering from is the IP address you are placing the order from.

How will the service know you are buying via a different VPN in the first place? It's not like there is a public record of all VPN addresses (unlike there is a public record for all IP addresses that are flagged in Italy for example) - that could perfectly be a normal IP address. There's a huge chance the provider will not even know you are using a VPN at all when buying. If the IP address of that VPN or proxy or whatever you are using is not in Italy, how will the provider know you are from Italy? You have to click a checkbox to confirm you are not Italian, so the provider has the confirmation that they are applying the correct policy. But it's against the privacy rights to request for ID card copy or facial scan, so it's up to you to provide the accurate information If you order via Tor for example, via the .onion address of AirVPN, how can it be known? So, obviously you must NOT be an Italian if you are purchasing your VPN from there, you are resident of Tor-onion-land.

I recommend closing this post for future replies, as the main message has been properly sent, and to prevent more confusing stuff - in case the legal framework will be reversed in Italy (as it should because it's madness, but then again this is something too big and beyond powers to talk here) a new announcement will be made confirming the acceptance of Italian customers.
 

[CIAOBUBU 0]

Hi!
Are there any news on the "italian situation"? Are there any hopes the the service will be again available in Italy?

[Staff 9972]

@ss11

Hello!

That's correct, and we also operate with due diligence. For example, we refuse payments from Italy credit cards and accounts.

Kind regards