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Quantum computers are coming - and probably sooner than we think.

 

Does AirVPN have any thoughts or strategy to mitigate this threat to VPN-security?

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Hello !

 

We don't have quantum computers yet and so I think until we do, there probably aren't such great plans for it yet. Maybe you read the article about what google is doing with chrome

 

http://www.techspot.com/news/65517-google-taking-steps-safeguard-chrome-quantum-computers.html

 

As stated, you'd need a very big and/or advanced one. So even if one was made, it would still take time to become commonplace. I'm sure that once some quantum-resistant algorithms are identified, that Air will look into it


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Please be aware that all encrypted communication on the Internet is recorded and stored for later decryption. This was revealed years ago by Snowden.

 

With these facts it is only logical to prepare for post-quantum as soon as possible. It is unwise to just sit with the hands in the pockets and only react after the quantum computers are here.

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Hello !

 

We don't have quantum computers yet and so I think until we do, there probably aren't such great plans for it yet. Maybe you read the article about what google is doing with chrome

 

http://www.techspot.com/news/65517-google-taking-steps-safeguard-chrome-quantum-computers.html

 

As stated, you'd need a very big and/or advanced one. So even if one was made, it would still take time to become commonplace. I'm sure that once some quantum-resistant algorithms are identified, that Air will look into it

There is some tension between google and " google takes care of ower privacy".Of course ,my opinion .But be carefull with both.

​Greetings, Casper


xmpp.airvpn.org ; D70D4969 808093D5 ED232F8A 1764CFBC C020509B

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Haha, I'm definitely not in the camp that thinks google cares one bit about privacy, not to worry, we're in agreement.


Moderators do not speak on behalf of AirVPN. Only the Official Staff account does. Please also do not run Tor Exit Servers behind AirVPN, thank you.
Did you make a guide or how-to for something? Then contact me to get it listed in my new user guide's Guides Section, so that the community can find it more easily.


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Respectfully, quantum computing does not exist. All claims of quantum computing have proven false. And even if they did exist, they could at worst reduce the amount of work to half the amount currently required. And if every computer ever made worded together for a billion years, the odds are they could not break one single 256 bit key.

 

So to hell with the FUD. (Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt.) Encryption is only weak if you rely on antiquated methods.


Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place.

So if you write your code as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you are not smart enough to debug it.

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It is irrelevant whether quantum computers exist or not today. That was not my point with the topic. My point was preparing (and how to) for post-quantum, as all encrypted traffic is recorded and stored today for later decryption.

 

Todays generated and stored encrypted VPN-traffic will be trivial to decrypt in the future, because no quantum resistant ciphers are used. Please also find the research here.

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How many of your traffic will be relevant in, let's say 20 years from now on?

Same thing I always reply in such threads will also apply here, if you are a valuable target, you

will be compromised and the VPN keys are not something that is going to protect you from

nation state actors, since it only provides transport security.

 

OpenVPN (and other modern cryptography in general) are not ready for anything "Post XYZ" yet.

Researchers have to see it first before any effective measures can be taken.


Occasional moderator, sometimes BOFH. Opinions are my own, except when my wife disagrees.

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How many of your traffic will be relevant in, let's say 20 years from now on?

 

Who are you to judge what is important for other people?​

Same thing I always reply in such threads will also apply here, if you are a valuable target, you

will be compromised and the VPN keys are not something that is going to protect you from

nation state actors, since it only provides transport security.

Do you lock the doors in your house when you leave? There is really no reason to it, according to your defeatism-logic, as any burglar that wants to enter your home will be able to anyway.

OpenVPN (and other modern cryptography in general) are not ready for anything "Post XYZ" yet.

Researchers have to see it first before any effective measures can be taken.

 

Please read up upon the science. Quantum-safe cryptography do exist. There are plenty of scientific references via my link in my previous post.

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AirVPN already uses all initial recommendations that are possible to use, relying on the latest OpenSSL algorithms.

You are welcome to read one of the slides from PQCrypto 2016:

 

https://hyperelliptic.org/tanja/vortraege/sg-20160316.pdf

 

Initial recommendations
    Symmetric encryption Thoroughly analyzed, 256-bit keys:
    AES-256
    Salsa20 with a 256-bit key

Symmetric authentication Information-theoretic MACs:
    GCM using a 96-bit nonce and a 128-bit authenticator
    Poly1305


Occasional moderator, sometimes BOFH. Opinions are my own, except when my wife disagrees.

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This post is general, and not directed at any one person. It is directed at the thread.

 

Quantum computers, like the "D-Wave" quantum computers are about as potent as a cell phone. They could not break even weak encryption in the timeline of our lives.

 

And make no mistake, no-one has *EVER* made a working quantum computer. That is right. Stop screaming about how they are already here. They are not. It is *NOT* a quantum computer if it cannot do the work while magically neutralizing half the work. It has not happened. D-Wave is just a scam. They want investors. They would promise anything to get more investments. But until they deliver or demonstrate a real quantum computer, they are a scam.

 

And lets not pretend that even a quantum computer would make breaking AES-256 take seconds. That is plainly stupid. At best, if they even existed, it would reduce the complexity to 2^255 operations to break AES-256. And this amount of work would take more time than our sun will have before it turns to the red giant phase and roasts us all to death. And yes, that is still for one single key.

 

I think some of the people here may not understand binary computation. Do you think AES-256 is twice as strong as AES-128? You are so far beyond wrong... Look at your hands. One bit has two possibilities. Two bits has four. Three bits has eight. Four bits has sixteen. Five bits has thirty-two. Six bits has sixty-four. Seven bits has one-hundred and twenty-eight. Eight bits has two-hundred and fifty-six. Nine bits has five-hundred and twelve. Ten bits has one thousand and twenty-four. That is what you can count in binary on your ten fingers.

 

So if quantum computers remove half the work of decryption, they would effectively turn 256 bit AES into 255 bit AES. That is right. It may be able to remove one single bit from the work. Quantum computers do not exist, and even if they did, they are not going to be able to break your encryption.

 

Do not be fooled by scare tactics. And please do not spread FUD. (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.) Good day everyone.

 

*Edit* I mistakenly said @wunderbar did not post a link. I am clearly incorrect.


Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place.

So if you write your code as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you are not smart enough to debug it.

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You have not posted a link of any sort in this thread. If you intended to, I and others would love to see it.

 

​Please, do not patronize. You are incorrect. Please read post #7, thank you.

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You have not posted a link of any sort in this thread. If you intended to, I and others would love to see it.

 

​Please, do not patronize. You are incorrect. Please read post #7, thank you.

You are correct. I apologize. I checked and somehow missed it. I will edit my post immediately.


Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place.

So if you write your code as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you are not smart enough to debug it.

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To sum up what everyone else is saying, don't worry about it. As others have stated, the possibility of code breaking quantum computers is uncertain at best. Even if it were true, quantum computers are decades away, who knows what will become of our governments, or planet or anything else for fucks sake. Worry about it when it gets here. Sorry but that's literally all you can do. Just take comfort in the fact that you have the ability to protect yourself right now and will be able to protect yourself for years to come.

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OmniNegro, is it not the public key crypto that's said to be vulnerable to quantum computing, rather than the symmetric crypto? It's a moot point that quantum computing can only reduce the complexity of 256 bit AES to 255 bits when it is the DH keys that will be attacked.

 

Having said that, 4096 bit DH is still quite strong against quantum computers. ECC is much more vulnerable to quantum attacks, from what I understand - a 256 bit ECC key is only equivalent to 3072 bit RSA on classical computers, but is significantly weaker against a quantum computer:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_cryptography#Quantum_computing_attacks

 

However, this is only expected to be an issue at least 10 years in the future, at which point the traffic that has been captured will probably no longer be of interest.

 

For the time being, it is more urgent to worry about traffic correlation attacks; why would an advanced, nation state attacker blow money on a technology that is 10+ years away from being advanced enough, when they can simply correlate what goes into a VPN server with what comes out via cable taps? NSA/GCHQ is probably already doing this at least some of the time to VPN traffic, as well as Tor. Five Eyes regard their cryptanalytic capabilities as among their most sensitive, and only use them against very high priority targets for whom there is no alternative.

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This post is general, and not directed at any one person. It is directed at the thread.

 

Quantum computers, like the "D-Wave" quantum computers are about as potent as a cell phone. They could not break even weak encryption in the timeline of our lives.

 

And make no mistake, no-one has *EVER* made a working quantum computer. That is right. Stop screaming about how they are already here. They are not. It is *NOT* a quantum computer if it cannot do the work while magically neutralizing half the work. It has not happened. D-Wave is just a scam. They want investors. They would promise anything to get more investments. But until they deliver or demonstrate a real quantum computer, they are a scam.

 

And lets not pretend that even a quantum computer would make breaking AES-256 take seconds. That is plainly stupid. At best, if they even existed, it would reduce the complexity to 2^255 operations to break AES-256. And this amount of work would take more time than our sun will have before it turns to the red giant phase and roasts us all to death. And yes, that is still for one single key.

 

I think some of the people here may not understand binary computation. Do you think AES-256 is twice as strong as AES-128? You are so far beyond wrong... Look at your hands. One bit has two possibilities. Two bits has four. Three bits has eight. Four bits has sixteen. Five bits has thirty-two. Six bits has sixty-four. Seven bits has one-hundred and twenty-eight. Eight bits has two-hundred and fifty-six. Nine bits has five-hundred and twelve. Ten bits has one thousand and twenty-four. That is what you can count in binary on your ten fingers.

 

So if quantum computers remove half the work of decryption, they would effectively turn 256 bit AES into 255 bit AES. That is right. It may be able to remove one single bit from the work. Quantum computers do not exist, and even if they did, they are not going to be able to break your encryption.

 

Do not be fooled by scare tactics. And please do not spread FUD. (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt.) Good day everyone.

 

*Edit* I mistakenly said @wunderbar did not post a link. I am clearly incorrect.

OmniNegro is correct: experimental quantum computers currently only have a few qbits…ie, not very usable. But in 10 years will probably be powerful. However they will compute at the square of present speeds so they will crack a 256 bit key in the same time as current supercomputers could crack a 128 bit key. And how long is that? Do the math: about 3x10e7 seconds per year times about 10e16 flops per second = (very roughly) 3x10e23 guesses per year. 2e128 = approx. 3x10e38 possible keys. So roughly 10e15 years for a quantum supercomputer to check all keys. Or about 50,000 ages of the universe. I’m not too FUDed about that. But your mileage may vary

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OmniNegro, is it not the public key crypto that's said to be vulnerable to quantum computing, rather than the symmetric crypto? It's a moot point that quantum computing can only reduce the complexity of 256 bit AES to 255 bits when it is the DH keys that will be attacked.

 

Having said that, 4096 bit DH is still quite strong against quantum computers. ECC is much more vulnerable to quantum attacks, from what I understand - a 256 bit ECC key is only equivalent to 3072 bit RSA on classical computers, but is significantly weaker against a quantum computer:

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elliptic_curve_cryptography#Quantum_computing_attacks

 

However, this is only expected to be an issue at least 10 years in the future, at which point the traffic that has been captured will probably no longer be of interest.

 

For the time being, it is more urgent to worry about traffic correlation attacks; why would an advanced, nation state attacker blow money on a technology that is 10+ years away from being advanced enough, when they can simply correlate what goes into a VPN server with what comes out via cable taps? NSA/GCHQ is probably already doing this at least some of the time to VPN traffic, as well as Tor. Five Eyes regard their cryptanalytic capabilities as among their most sensitive, and only use them against very high priority targets for whom there is no alternative.

Firstly, DH (Diffie-Hellman) is not a cipher. It is a key exchange method. And in almost every case, it uses RSA as the cipher.

 

3072 bit RSA will still be quite strong in a decade. Even if QC happens to become a real thing.

 

If QC happens to come out in force, it will come out in force for both sides. We will abandon our linear ciphers running on old binary computers in favor of the next "unbreakable" cipher on the systems of the day. This is the way things have always been.

 

Will there be pitfalls on the way? Most certainly. We have always had to watch what we do to maintain privacy and security, and I really doubt this will ever change.


Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place.

So if you write your code as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you are not smart enough to debug it.

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The anonymous author of the article you cited is rambling in a somewhat paranoid manner and simply repeating his allegation that NSA already has powerful quantum computers. But he offers no references or sources to back up that assertion other than the MIT article from last March. If you read that article it says MIT can now factor the number 15 with 5 qubits...WOW:.. 3 times 5. It also says that though they think it can be scaled up to powerful levels, that will take time and a fortune.  So the brightest minds at MIT can currently factor the number 15...HOLY COW! The author needs to go back on his meds.

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​Google will never take care of you privacy remember that. google is, was and always will be your privacy nightmare

​Do search for everything that google controlled and get rid of it. get rid of also Microsoft, facebook use open source as much as you can and stop being naive that those idiots will take care of your privacy WAKE UP

 

Hello !

 

We don't have quantum computers yet and so I think until we do, there probably aren't such great plans for it yet. Maybe you read the article about what google is doing with chrome

 

http://www.techspot.com/news/65517-google-taking-steps-safeguard-chrome-quantum-computers.html

 

As stated, you'd need a very big and/or advanced one. So even if one was made, it would still take time to become commonplace. I'm sure that once some quantum-resistant algorithms are identified, that Air will look into it

There is some tension between google and " google takes care of ower privacy".Of course ,my opinion .But be carefull with both.

​Greetings, Casper

 

 

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Yes they have, but not powerful because they are not quantum they use powerful algorithms they call it "quantum base algorithms" even so they cannot decrypt you encryption thats why Microsoft created a windows 10 thats why they have low in US to surrender you passwords if requested Specially on the borders. Encrypt everything on your computers FUCK THEM ALL they will never defied mathematic ENCRYPT ENCRYPT ENCRYPT as stronger password as possible and DO NOT USE WINDOWS 10. anyone who already used their password or private keys on windows 10 change them and never use them again. START OVER

 

The anonymous author of the article you cited is rambling in a somewhat paranoid manner and simply repeating his allegation that NSA already has powerful quantum computers. But he offers no references or sources to back up that assertion other than the MIT article from last March. If you read that article it says MIT can now factor the number 15 with 5 qubits...WOW:.. 3 times 5. It also says that though they think it can be scaled up to powerful levels, that will take time and a fortune.  So the brightest minds at MIT can currently factor the number 15...HOLY COW! The author needs to go back on his meds.

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Totally agree with hackers2016

I use VeraCrypt they have a hidden partition even if those idiots request your password veracrypt uses separate password for the hidden partition so you can give them the password for the regular partition and thats how I am crossing borders. There is no way anyone could find that there is hidden partition in the encrypted container

​Hope that's useful you can check this website I found on hidden wiki https://www.privacytools.io/

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Totally agree with hackers2016

I use VeraCrypt they have a hidden partition even if those idiots request your password veracrypt uses separate password for the hidden partition so you can give them the password for the regular partition and thats how I am crossing borders. There is no way anyone could find that there is hidden partition in the encrypted container

​Hope that's useful you can check this website I found on hidden wiki https://www.privacytools.io/

 

Unfortunately it depends on who the "idiots" are. Even with Full Disk Encryption like Veracrypt, note the following. If your machine is on and connected to the net, it can be hacked. If the machine is off but not under your permanent total control the hardware can be hacked (see Evil Maid Attack). If the machine is recently off, it can be "Cold Boot" attacked. Then there are various types of "Tempest" attacks. Do your best to not be a target of the cleverer idiots.

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You think you are clever, and yet you publically disclose the existence of a hidden container in a encryption program that was made to give plausible deniability? Bad move. Edit your posts and remove any mention of it. *NEVER* speak of hidden containers.


Debugging is at least twice as hard as writing the program in the first place.

So if you write your code as clever as you can possibly make it, then by definition you are not smart enough to debug it.

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